00:05 Uh,
00:05 we have 2 more presentations.
00:07 They will be short,
00:07 uh,
00:08 but,
00:08 uh,
00:08 compelling.
00:10 Uh,
00:10 the first will be given by Stephen Winkler.
00:12 He's a social development specialist in the World Bank,
00:15 and he will be followed by,
00:16 uh,
00:16 Jan van der Goolz,
00:18 who is a,
00:18 a senior economist in the World Bank.
00:21 Over to you,
00:21 Steven.
00:24 Thank you so much,
00:25 Paula,
00:25 and I hope everyone can hear me OK.
00:27 Uh,
00:27 before I begin,
00:28 I also just want to echo,
00:30 uh,
00:30 what others have said in,
00:31 in highlighting the partnership between the World Bank,
00:34 the UK government,
00:35 and UNHCR.
00:36 I think it's produced,
00:37 um,
00:38 uh,
00:39 especially in this case,
00:40 research that is not only,
00:41 uh,
00:42 very interesting,
00:42 but also I think,
00:44 uh,
00:44 has made a difference and will continue to make a difference,
00:46 which is,
00:47 of course,
00:48 uh,
00:48 like Teresa said,
00:49 what,
00:49 what really matters here.
00:50 So.
00:51 Next side,
00:52 please.
00:53 So I'm gonna share a little bit about the uh research program on social cohesion.
00:58 And
00:59 What we tried to do with this research program is
01:02 uh build evidence on how uh development investments but also policies
01:07 can reduce inequalities and promote social cohesion
01:11 in forced displacement contexts.
01:14 And the way that we did this is we,
01:15 we,
01:16 um,
01:16 had a competitive call for proposals
01:19 where we received about I think 250 submissions and then from there
01:24 we had a committee select about 26
01:26 uh background papers,
01:28 um.
01:29 And those research teams uh that were selected then produced
01:33 uh background papers that covered um countries across Africa,
01:37 Asia,
01:37 Central and South America,
01:39 and also Europe.
01:40 And they used uh several different research designs.
01:43 Including both quantitative
01:45 and qualitative methods
01:47 and then once those 26 papers were
01:50 produced and went through various review processes,
01:52 many of them,
01:53 uh,
01:53 were published as Paulo highlighted in,
01:55 in,
01:56 um,
01:57 in top journals,
01:58 uh,
01:59 then what we did is we
02:00 produced one kind of global report where we attempted
02:03 to synthesize what we were seeing across these 26 papers
02:07 into,
02:07 um,
02:08 uh,
02:09 uh,
02:09 one report,
02:10 uh,
02:10 on this new evidence on.
02:12 Force displacement
02:14 and social cohesion.
02:16 Next slide,
02:16 please.
02:18 So this just gives you a snapshot of the countries that were covered
02:22 by the 26
02:24 background papers.
02:25 I also want to note,
02:26 we had a couple of papers that were um large cross-national studies.
02:30 Uh,
02:30 so for example,
02:31 there was a paper that covered,
02:33 uh,
02:33 pretty much all of sub-Saharan Africa.
02:34 So there are a few countries
02:36 not highlighted here that were covered by
02:38 the research.
02:40 Next slide.
02:41 So what I want to do in my um very limited time today is just on this slide,
02:45 give.
02:46 A really quick overview of only 4 of those 26 background papers,
02:51 uh,
02:51 just to give you an idea of the types of,
02:53 uh,
02:54 research questions,
02:55 but also the findings that were coming out of this,
02:57 this,
02:57 uh,
02:58 research program.
02:59 And then on the next slide,
03:00 I'll cover kind of some of the key takeaways from that,
03:02 that global report.
03:04 The first paper I want to talk about is a paper by Axaway and Jen.
03:07 And if I'm not wrong,
03:08 I think I saw,
03:09 uh,
03:09 one of these authors in the room.
03:11 So,
03:11 uh,
03:12 you can correct me if I misspeak on any of this,
03:14 but
03:15 Uh,
03:16 what,
03:16 what these authors looked at is they looked at,
03:18 I think,
03:18 34,
03:19 uh,
03:20 low and middle income countries across a time frame of I think 14 years.
03:24 And what they found is that,
03:25 um,
03:26 in those countries,
03:28 large refugee arrivals
03:29 do not negatively affect host community attitudes towards
03:33 uh towards refugees.
03:35 Uh,
03:35 they also found that.
03:37 Uh,
03:38 countries that adopted more inclusive policies.
03:40 So
03:41 things like access to the labor market,
03:44 uh,
03:45 those,
03:45 those inclusive policies did not lead to,
03:48 uh,
03:48 more negative attitudes towards refugees.
03:50 And I think,
03:51 uh,
03:51 this is
03:53 really important one,
03:54 because,
03:54 uh,
03:55 as Sukina highlighted and others have mentioned,
03:57 there's,
03:57 there's in the past been a lack of
04:00 focus on low and middle-income countries.
04:02 And so I think.
04:03 Building this evidence across 34 low and middle income countries is,
04:07 is
04:07 super helpful.
04:09 Uh,
04:09 but also,
04:10 um,
04:10 the result here is a little bit different
04:12 than what we've seen in some high-income countries,
04:14 uh,
04:14 in terms of,
04:15 uh,
04:16 uh,
04:16 refugee arrivals and sentiment towards those refugees.
04:19 So then a second paper I'll mention is on Uganda,
04:21 and this paper,
04:22 uh,
04:23 found that host communities
04:25 with more exposure to refugee settlements actually experienced,
04:28 um,
04:29 significant increases in the provision of public goods and services.
04:33 Uh,
04:34 things like access to healthcare,
04:36 access to education,
04:38 uh,
04:38 density of roads,
04:39 and at the same time,
04:40 uh,
04:42 uh,
04:42 those same communities,
04:43 uh,
04:44 did not see any,
04:45 um,
04:46 uh.
04:47 Uh,
04:48 negative increase in attitude towards
04:50 migrants or migration policy,
04:52 um,
04:52 and this aligns with kind of what we just
04:54 heard from Teresa in terms of the importance of,
04:56 uh,
04:57 directing resources also to,
04:59 um,
04:59 uh,
05:00 to host communities,
05:02 uh,
05:02 and what,
05:02 what the authors in this paper argue is that.
05:05 Uh,
05:06 because those host communities can experience
05:08 those public service benefits,
05:10 it actually helps to mitigate any of the potential backlash,
05:13 or at least some of the backlash that could otherwise occur,
05:16 uh,
05:17 uh,
05:17 in response to refugee settlement.
05:20 Third,
05:20 I'll,
05:20 I'll talk about this paper from Greece.
05:22 Um,
05:23 this paper is interesting.
05:24 It's one of the few that we had in the 26 that looked,
05:27 uh,
05:27 over a super long time period.
05:29 So they looked at,
05:30 um,
05:30 Greece's response to.
05:32 Uh,
05:33 the arrival of Greek Orthodox,
05:35 uh,
05:36 refugees in the early 1920s
05:38 and what they found is that,
05:40 uh,
05:42 early investment in policies,
05:44 uh,
05:44 such as granting farmland,
05:46 um,
05:47 building new houses and schools,
05:49 granting citizenship,
05:51 uh,
05:52 those early,
05:53 early policies helped to promote.
05:56 Uh,
05:57 uh,
05:57 integration of refugees into the community
05:59 and promoted long-term social cohesion.
06:01 So they looked at
06:03 survey data and census data
06:05 from the 1920s all the way up to,
06:07 uh,
06:07 I think 2001,
06:09 and we're able to track kind of the,
06:11 the integration and the long-term social cohesion,
06:14 uh,
06:14 tied to those policies.
06:17 And then the final paper I'll mention is a paper
06:19 uh in Colombia and here the authors used a
06:23 uh conjoint survey experiment
06:25 and they found that um
06:28 Colombians who reported higher levels of meaningful social interaction
06:32 with Venezuelan migrants
06:34 tend to favor more open migratory policies,
06:36 so things like.
06:38 Labor market access,
06:39 um,
06:40 and
06:41 allowing Venezuelan migrants to
06:43 have their families join them in Colombia,
06:45 those types of
06:46 family reunification policies.
06:48 Uh,
06:49 so again,
06:50 here,
06:50 uh,
06:51 highlighting the,
06:52 uh,
06:53 impact of what Paula mentioned in terms of,
06:54 of meaningful interactions and what impact that can have,
06:58 uh,
06:59 on the relationship between,
07:00 uh,
07:01 refugees and host communities.
07:04 So that gives you,
07:05 like I said,
07:05 a very,
07:05 very quick overview of just some of the,
07:08 some of the um
07:10 findings from the background papers.
07:12 And then as I mentioned,
07:13 what we did is we tried to
07:15 take all of that new evidence and put it in one report,
07:17 which is of course challenging,
07:19 um,
07:19 but
07:20 I'll try and highlight some of the key takeaways from that report.
07:23 And the first takeaway is just to acknowledge that,
07:26 you know,
07:26 displacement
07:27 can
07:28 make things worse.
07:29 Displacement can,
07:31 uh,
07:31 exacerbate existing inequalities.
07:33 It can create new tensions,
07:35 uh,
07:36 create the potential for new conflicts,
07:38 um,
07:38 especially in the short term
07:40 and especially in areas with,
07:42 uh,
07:43 already strained and limited,
07:45 uh,
07:45 uh,
07:46 services and resources.
07:47 Um,
07:48 but what,
07:49 you know,
07:49 many,
07:50 many of the papers,
07:51 uh,
07:51 pulled out is that.
07:52 Uh,
07:53 inclusive policies and development investments can really help to mitigate
07:57 some of these negative effects,
07:59 uh,
07:59 that would otherwise occur from.
08:01 The displacement experience
08:04 And in the report,
08:05 we have um
08:06 several different kind of policy and operational recommendations.
08:09 So I encourage you to,
08:10 to check out our report.
08:11 Um,
08:12 we go into a much richer discussion there on all of these,
08:15 but
08:15 I'll highlight,
08:16 highlight just a few,
08:17 um.
08:19 The first,
08:20 uh,
08:20 which might be quite obvious,
08:21 but,
08:22 uh,
08:22 aligns with the UN Global Compact in terms of providing refugees
08:26 the right to work,
08:27 uh,
08:28 and freedom of movement
08:29 and access to services and other basic rights.
08:33 The second is the importance of investing in infrastructure and services.
08:38 Uh,
08:39 and the third is ensuring that those investments.
08:42 Uh,
08:42 and also humanitarian aid targets both
08:45 the displaced persons and the host communities,
08:48 uh,
08:49 and that it does so,
08:50 um,
08:51 and considers both
08:52 the needs in the near term,
08:54 uh,
08:54 but also in the long term,
08:56 but also the unique needs of,
08:58 uh,
08:58 urban and rural areas.
09:00 This is something that was
09:01 coming out in a few of the papers that just the,
09:03 the variation and needs and impact,
09:06 uh,
09:07 in urban and rural areas.
09:10 Also,
09:10 uh,
09:11 some of the research suggested that using participatory approaches,
09:14 so,
09:15 uh,
09:15 approaches that engage
09:17 both displaced persons and host communities to kind of collectively,
09:21 uh,
09:22 use their voice to determine how to allocate resources
09:24 can help mitigate some tensions in the communities.
09:28 Fourth is providing
09:30 services such as mental health services,
09:33 social assistance,
09:34 and legal assistance
09:36 that are most needed by displaced persons.
09:39 And then 5th is this idea of promoting positive interaction.
09:44 And we talk in the paper about some of the different mechanisms and interventions.
09:49 Uh,
09:49 that can
09:50 be used for this,
09:51 um,
09:52 but I just want to highlight that there is.
09:54 Kind of growing research,
09:55 not just from
09:56 this research program,
09:57 but a few other
09:58 recent studies that um
10:00 this idea of really
10:02 promoting meaningful interactions between displaced persons
10:05 and host communities can help to
10:08 build empathy across those two groups and promote
10:11 uh long-term
10:12 social cohesion.
10:14 So I will end there.
10:14 I think hopefully these sites will be shared,
10:16 um,
10:16 and so you'll be able to access these links where you can see um
10:20 the full report,
10:21 the 26 papers,
10:22 some recordings of other events that we've held,
10:25 um,
10:25 and also this video,
10:27 uh,
10:27 that summarizes the results from the,
10:29 the full report.
10:31 So I'll end there.
10:32 Thank you so much.
10:39 Thank you very much,
10:39 Steven,
10:40 and uh it's your turn,
10:41 Yan.
10:42 Over to you.
10:44 Thank you very much,
10:44 Paula,
10:45 and it's a pleasure to be with you,
10:46 uh,
10:46 this afternoon.
10:47 My name is Jan van der Goltz,
10:48 um,
10:48 and I'm here to present,
10:50 uh,
10:51 a study that we've done on the impacts of hosting refugees on jobs for hosts.
10:56 Um,
10:57 you know,
10:57 it's,
10:58 it's part of the larger suite of work that we've done on jobs,
11:01 um,
11:01 it's available for you online on the World Bank's website.
11:04 Uh,
11:04 next page,
11:05 please.
11:07 So the,
11:08 the study we're talking about today
11:10 reviews the global evidence,
11:11 but then,
11:12 uh,
11:12 focuses in on 4 case study countries.
11:15 So you see them here,
11:16 it's Colombia,
11:17 Ethiopia,
11:18 Jordan,
11:18 and Uganda,
11:19 uh,
11:20 2 middle-income countries,
11:21 2 low-income countries,
11:22 and within each group,
11:23 one country that has
11:25 for some time had a very open,
11:27 um,
11:27 stance toward labor market integration of refugees,
11:30 and one country that has been more cautious in opening up.
11:34 Um,
11:35 we,
11:35 we try to ask
11:37 two primary questions.
11:38 One is,
11:38 how do the impacts on jobs for hosts
11:41 differ across these different settings that have such,
11:44 uh,
11:45 such a variety of economic context,
11:47 and also such a variety of policies?
11:50 And secondly,
11:51 what drives these differences?
11:52 How do refugees and hosts interact in the labor market?
11:55 Uh,
11:55 in ways that then ultimately,
11:57 uh,
11:57 create these jobs impacts.
11:59 Um,
11:59 as additional work,
12:00 we,
12:00 uh,
12:01 evaluated three work permit schemes,
12:03 uh,
12:04 in these countries,
12:05 and we conducted an experiment
12:07 on hosts' attitudes,
12:09 uh,
12:09 towards refugees and how competition in
12:11 the labor market influences these attitudes.
12:14 Uh,
12:14 next slide,
12:15 please.
12:16 So I'll just show you two brief slides that summarize the results.
12:20 What you see here
12:21 are the comparative results across these four
12:23 countries on the effect of hosting refugees
12:26 on consumption in the lowland countries or
12:28 on earnings in the middle-income countries,
12:31 as well as on,
12:32 on the employment rate among hosts.
12:34 And the shading really tells the story.
12:36 So the blue boxes
12:38 are positive effects.
12:39 So for instance,
12:40 an increase in consumption or an increase in the employment rate.
12:43 The red boxes
12:45 or orange boxes are negative effects,
12:47 and the beige boxes are no effect.
12:49 And as you can see,
12:51 the first finding really of this exercise was
12:54 that across these four very different settings,
12:56 the overall effect
12:57 of hosting refugees on these very important labor market outcomes
13:01 were modest or even positive in some countries.
13:06 The,
13:06 uh,
13:06 twin finding to that is that once you
13:08 look at different groups within the labor market,
13:11 uh,
13:11 you do find differences.
13:12 You find some groups that are negatively affected,
13:14 you find some groups that are positively affected.
13:18 And,
13:18 uh,
13:18 the findings from the work permit analysis really mirrors these pictures.
13:22 The overall impact of um allowing greater access through work,
13:26 work permit schemes,
13:27 uh,
13:27 is mild or positive in the cases that we studied in Colombia and Jordan.
13:32 Uh,
13:32 but there are differences in how,
13:34 uh,
13:34 various groups within the labor market are affected.
13:36 And of course,
13:37 we discussed that,
13:38 uh,
13:38 in detail in the report.
13:41 We then collected primary data in 3 out of
13:44 these 4 countries to really focus on some labor
13:46 markets both in the urban and in the rural
13:48 sphere and try to understand how hosts and refugees
13:52 interact there.
13:53 And I'll just
13:54 give you a little flavor of that here.
13:56 One thing that,
13:57 that's really quite important,
13:58 we think to emphasize is that even in those
14:01 labor markets where access to work is fairly restricted,
14:04 refugees will find ways to participate
14:07 out of economic necessity.
14:09 But conversely,
14:10 even in the pretty open labor markets,
14:12 a lot of refugees do not participate and are mainly consumers in the local market.
14:17 So it's important
14:18 to think both about the labor market competition that comes out of that,
14:21 but also the market opportunities
14:24 that come through this influx
14:26 of additional consumers.
14:28 The second
14:30 key point is that both the policy environment and the loss of assets,
14:35 uh,
14:35 through displacement really pushes refugees toward vulnerable employment,
14:39 and that creates certain patterns of competition for hosts.
14:42 It tends to be hosts
14:43 who work in some of the more vulnerable jobs,
14:46 uh,
14:46 that see more competition,
14:48 especially if there's less support for refugees,
14:50 and especially if there's less openness to refugees on the labor market.
14:53 And the final point,
14:55 um,
14:56 Is that while from the high-income countries,
14:58 we are quite used to thinking about skill matches.
15:01 Um,
15:02 skills may matter in the lower-income countries,
15:04 but maybe not in the obvious ways.
15:06 It can be more about
15:07 soft skills,
15:08 as we've heard,
15:09 uh,
15:09 from Stephen.
15:10 Uh,
15:10 it can be about,
15:11 um,
15:12 language,
15:12 it can be about the ability to network.
15:15 Um,
15:15 but the technical skills and some of these labor markets don't come out,
15:18 uh,
15:19 as strongly as a factor of integration.
15:21 On the other hand,
15:22 Assets are incredibly important
15:24 in labor markets where most everybody is self-employed.
15:28 Of course,
15:28 the ability to start your own business activity,
15:31 uh,
15:31 is critical for refugees,
15:33 and it's also very decisive for hosts who are trying to
15:35 seize some of these opportunities that come in the market,
15:38 uh,
15:39 through the new,
15:40 uh,
15:40 market participants,
15:41 new consumers that arise.
15:43 Final slide,
15:43 please.
15:45 Well,
15:46 there should be a,
15:46 a slide on policy messages,
15:48 you know,
15:48 I'm,
15:48 I'm just gonna talk about it,
15:50 um,
15:50 while we,
15:51 while we see this slide.
15:53 Um.
15:54 Just a few points to emphasize,
15:56 um,
15:57 we show,
15:57 I think that it's really quite critical to look very
16:01 closely and in a very realistic and grounded way
16:04 at the labor markets that we are talking about.
16:06 We try to give some guidance for trying to
16:08 understand how competition is likely to play out,
16:11 uh,
16:11 in these labor markets.
16:12 Secondly,
16:13 as we've said,
16:14 it's important to think about opportunities.
16:16 We tend to think about competition in the labor markets,
16:19 but there are new consumers,
16:20 there are workers,
16:21 there are people with skills and assets,
16:23 uh,
16:23 who arrive in these markets,
16:25 and opportunities will come.
16:26 We explained that,
16:27 for instance,
16:27 in the case of agriculture,
16:29 uh,
16:29 where there can be significant opportunities for,
16:31 for local producers.
16:33 Um,
16:34 And finally,
16:35 just to emphasize again,
16:37 uh,
16:37 the importance of access to capital in low-income labor markets
16:40 where much employment is and self-employment and household activities,
16:44 and the need to think really carefully
16:46 about the kind of,
16:47 um,
16:47 skill support
16:49 that would be of use to,
16:50 to refugees and to their hosts.
16:52 Um,
16:53 I'll stop there.
16:54 Uh,
16:55 we expect to,
16:56 uh,
16:56 formally launch this report in the coming year,
16:59 but,
16:59 uh,
17:00 the executive summary
17:01 is available both in the room.
17:03 I hope you'll take a copy as well as also online.
17:06 And I'd be remiss,
17:07 uh,
17:07 if I didn't mention,
17:08 given Paulo's remarks on cost effectiveness and how
17:11 important it is to try to track cost,
17:13 that there is a companion piece that looks
17:15 at the cost of job support and refugee settings
17:18 that is also available on the World Bank's website.
17:20 Thank you very much.
17:23 Thank you,
17:23 Yan.
17:24 Thank you,
17:24 Steven.
17:25 Uh,
17:26 we're ready now to switch over to our panel discussion.
17:29 So I'll invite all the panelists to come up,
17:31 uh,
17:31 take a seat at the table,
17:33 and I'll introduce our moderator.
17:35 Um,
17:36 he is uh Ricardo Morel.
17:37 He's the director of the Peace and Recovery Initiative at Innovations for
17:41 Poverty Action IPA.
17:43 Uh,
17:43 welcome to everyone
17:46 and as well as other,
17:47 uh,
17:48 uh,
17:48 services that you can provide for refugees.
17:50 This is what is doing,
17:51 OK.
17:53 Um,
17:54 it's an honor to be here and
17:56 thanks for the presentations to
17:59 the speakers,
18:00 uh,
18:00 Teresa,
18:01 Steven,
18:02 Jan,
18:03 and Paulo.
18:04 And right now we're going to,
18:06 to start a panel discussion
18:08 for about 30 minutes
18:11 and
18:12 then we'll open
18:13 for questions from the audience as well for about 15 minutes or so.
18:17 Um,
18:18 so we,
18:18 let me introduce the,
18:19 the panelist.
18:21 So we have Doctor Prosper
18:24 Ngandu,
18:25 who is the commissioner for refugees for the Republic of Zambia.
18:30 We have also Mr.
18:31 Mohulolo
18:32 Rerotoli,
18:34 who is the commissioner for Refugees for the Kingdom of Lesotho.
18:38 We have
18:39 Mr.
18:39 Paul Kitima.
18:41 Who is the executive director
18:43 of the refugee-led organization,
18:45 Bondeco Refugee Livelihood Center,
18:48 and we have Agnes Harrwitz,
18:50 who is senior Development Officer at UNHCR.
18:55 So,
18:55 I would like to
18:57 ask them two questions.
18:59 One
19:00 that is related to jobs
19:02 and the other one that is related to community or social cohesion as we've
19:06 seen from the presentations,
19:08 these are the two main topics
19:10 that we've discussed.
19:11 Um,
19:13 and I'll split the question.
19:14 So let me start with jobs,
19:16 um,
19:16 for Doctor Ngando
19:19 and for Mr.
19:20 Verratoli.
19:21 Uh,
19:22 so,
19:22 from the presentations,
19:24 uh,
19:24 especially I think from
19:25 Paulo Verme and from
19:27 Jan,
19:28 we've learned that
19:31 Well,
19:33 There are
19:34 important policies and programs trying to promote
19:37 inclusion of refugees in the labor markets,
19:40 and there seems,
19:41 the evidence seems to suggest that actually
19:44 they are positive on average
19:46 impacts
19:47 um
19:48 on host communities when there's presence of refugees.
19:52 The picture is,
19:53 is a bit complex,
19:54 you know,
19:54 when we disaggregate results,
19:56 we see that
19:57 some host community members can have more
20:00 opportunities while others will face some challenges.
20:03 So it's,
20:03 it's not like a very clear picture,
20:05 it's quite a complex one.
20:07 So the question is
20:10 whether
20:10 you can think of programs and policies in,
20:13 in your countries,
20:13 in your context
20:15 that are trying to foster the inclusion of refugees
20:19 and
20:20 If so,
20:21 then what are the,
20:22 the main challenges that you,
20:23 you have observed?
20:25 And lastly,
20:26 um,
20:26 so I'll,
20:27 I'll pack a couple of questions
20:29 and,
20:29 and you may choose,
20:30 hopefully you can answer them all.
20:32 Um,
20:33 since this is an evidence-driven
20:35 session,
20:36 if,
20:37 if you were to,
20:39 to think
20:40 what evidence,
20:41 what data,
20:42 what knowledge would you like to have
20:44 in order to inform your decisions regarding uh
20:47 integration of refugees in the labor market.
20:50 Thank you very much.
20:51 Yeah,
20:52 I simply say good afternoon,
20:53 everybody.
20:55 Well,
20:56 uh,
20:56 I'll start,
20:57 uh,
20:57 I know we have very few minutes given.
21:00 My introduction.
21:01 Yes,
21:01 I'm Doctor Ngandu,
21:02 but I'm now Ambassador Professor Ngandu.
21:07 Uh,
21:08 thank you for the topic.
21:10 Uh,
21:10 Zambia would want to announce that Zambia is the host of 93,000+ refugees.
21:18 So
21:20 The country as the current government realized the value of the refugee.
21:26 Refugees,
21:27 they are endowed with various skills.
21:29 And as we are talking about the economic turnaround of our country,
21:32 Zambia.
21:34 We came to realize that
21:36 the refugees should not be left behind.
21:39 They're a very,
21:40 very viable resource for economic development of the
21:42 country because they are endowed with various skills.
21:45 So in that vein,
21:47 The country took a paradigm shift towards
21:49 the management or the protection of refugees
21:52 so that the host the community
21:54 should appreciate the value of a refugee,
21:56 not to see the refugee as a burden
21:58 or as a criminal,
21:59 that these are foreigners
22:00 who have come to grab jobs or these are
22:02 foreigners who have come to grab our resources.
22:05 So we came up with a model which is called modernization
22:08 of refugees and also the community settlement approach.
22:12 What is this vehicle?
22:13 What is this?
22:14 We feel this is a game changer to the community as well as to the refugees.
22:18 They are refugees,
22:19 we are saying that first and foremost,
22:20 we need to
22:21 put them in the digitalization for the commission for refugees.
22:25 The refugees are fatigued in terms of documentation.
22:28 There are a number of documents that are asked when whenever
22:31 they want to access services.
22:32 So when we digitalize,
22:33 the refugees will be integrated into various departments.
22:38 They can go to the bank.
22:39 They can go to the police,
22:41 they can go anywhere.
22:42 They'll find that their data is there.
22:44 Second,
22:44 the most important thing for today's topic is about immunization laws.
22:49 We came to realize that the refugees are excluded in labor markets.
22:53 Why?
22:53 Because the the the laws that are in Zambia,
22:56 they don't allow refugees to work.
22:58 Unless they have a permit.
23:00 Now,
23:00 here's the situation.
23:01 The same government is giving refugees a free
23:03 education from early childhood to grade 12.
23:05 Why should you ask a refugee?
23:07 Why do you ask a former refugee or POC
23:10 a permit,
23:10 uh,
23:11 a study permit?
23:12 Why did you waste your resources to,
23:14 uh,
23:14 to,
23:14 to educate this child to go to up to grade 12?
23:17 So we are saying it's lay law.
23:19 This law must be scrapped off,
23:20 must be removed,
23:21 must be harmonized
23:23 so that the refugee has access to tertiary education.
23:26 Now,
23:26 if the refugee can have access to tertiary education,
23:28 what next?
23:29 It requires now to work.
23:32 So,
23:32 what do we do is,
23:33 in terms of now the Labor Act,
23:36 we are we are talking here,
23:37 we have already started to review the Labor Act
23:39 to ensure that the refugees are included in Labor Act
23:43 so that they are
23:44 allowed to work without permits.
23:47 Because a refugee is not,
23:48 not like you and I who can be uh economic migrant in Zambia.
23:52 And when you make money,
23:53 you make remittances to your country.
23:55 But the refugees,
23:56 they have no place to send money to the,
23:57 the,
23:57 the,
23:58 the,
23:58 the countries where they come from.
23:59 So why should they put in the same cluster with an economic migrant?
24:03 So we feel Zambia now is to reverse the laws,
24:06 harmonize the laws,
24:07 allow them to be working.
24:09 As we are talking here,
24:10 Some of the issues and matters have already been studied attended to.
24:15 The education in terms of study permits.
24:18 The vice president,
24:19 who is now,
24:20 he will be losing the,
24:21 the GRIF
24:23 instructed us
24:24 with the Minister of Foreign Affairs
24:25 and other patterns to ensure that the,
24:28 these who are gaining,
24:29 uh,
24:29 who are going to potential education,
24:31 they are excluded from study permits.
24:34 That it is not fair.
24:35 We are giving free education to these people.
24:37 Why should we ask them to study permits?
24:39 So,
24:40 this is one more instruction,
24:41 but we say
24:42 we need to harmonize the laws because tomorrow,
24:44 today,
24:44 there is this party in power,
24:46 tomorrow it will not be in power.
24:47 Then,
24:48 if we don't change the laws,
24:49 then again,
24:50 it will go back.
24:52 Then what we do also as the Zambia,
24:54 Zambia has been allowing refugees to go and ask for employment outside Zambia.
25:00 Using what we call the readable travel document.
25:04 The refugee can go to
25:06 Zimbabwe,
25:07 be employed.
25:09 When he decide or she decides to leave that employment,
25:11 she will come back to Zambia as a refugee.
25:14 We don't say that when you go,
25:15 that's the end of the refugee,
25:16 no.
25:18 Zambia allows children or refugees to go and
25:21 access tertiary education as we are talking about 88
25:25 under that scholarship.
25:26 They are in the US and Italy.
25:28 They are studying.
25:29 Before coming,
25:30 they were asking for letters to come back for
25:32 holidays because of the others they have closed,
25:34 and we have allowed them today.
25:35 They have allowed,
25:36 they have arrived in Zambia to see their parents.
25:38 They are still refugees.
25:40 So,
25:40 in terms of the labor market,
25:42 starting from education,
25:43 these are the policies Zambia is doing.
25:46 So we are trying to harmonize the laws in Zambia,
25:48 ensure that there's a permanent solution
25:50 to the labor market for refugees
25:52 and as well as to other uh uh services that are required for refugees.
25:56 This is what Zambia is doing.
25:57 Thank you.
25:59 Well,
25:59 thank you very much,
26:00 uh,
26:00 everybody.
26:01 Let me start by also introducing myself.
26:05 Uh,
26:05 my name is Mohlolo Logoturi.
26:08 I'm the commissioner for refugees.
26:11 In the Minister of Local Government Chieftainship.
26:15 O my person and police in the Kingdom of Lesotho.
26:18 Yes,
26:19 uh,
26:19 like,
26:19 um,
26:20 Zambia,
26:21 uh,
26:21 the Kingdom of Lesotho
26:23 has always been accommodating to,
26:25 to,
26:25 to refugees.
26:27 In fact,
26:27 uh,
26:28 uh,
26:28 concept of refugees in Lesotho is part and parcel of who we are as a nation.
26:33 It's actually in our DNA.
26:34 We are a country of
26:35 refugees ourselves.
26:38 So,
26:38 in Lesotho,
26:39 um,
26:40 refugees are allowed to work.
26:43 Without any work permit.
26:46 Children
26:46 are allowed to go to school.
26:47 In fact,
26:48 they're even part of the,
26:49 our free primary education.
26:52 They were also allowed to even uh engage some,
26:55 in some smaller businesses just like Basotho.
26:58 Whenever they go to the Ministry of Trade to apply for a license to trade,
27:02 they are not uh told they are refugees because we treat them the same as,
27:06 as our Basotho.
27:07 So,
27:07 there is no problem uh for them to work.
27:09 In fact,
27:10 uh,
27:11 The country has,
27:12 has,
27:12 has for a long time benefited from the skills that refugees possess.
27:17 Especially in the medical profession.
27:19 Most of our doctors
27:21 are refugees from the DRC,
27:23 Democratic Republic of the Congo,
27:25 and they're all over uh the country,
27:27 uh,
27:27 doing some work,
27:28 even the remotest part of our,
27:30 parts of our country
27:31 where the locals are reluctant to go,
27:33 you'll find refugees
27:35 operating in those remote areas.
27:38 And also the,
27:40 the refugees.
27:42 As you,
27:42 you,
27:42 you can see,
27:43 there've been uh doctors.
27:44 I mean,
27:45 they've been also teachers in,
27:46 in our country
27:48 from a long time ago during even the,
27:50 the,
27:50 the,
27:50 the fights uh for,
27:51 for struggle when,
27:52 uh,
27:52 you know,
27:52 Africa was fighting for,
27:54 for,
27:54 for,
27:54 for,
27:54 for liberation.
27:56 Uh,
27:56 refugees
27:57 have always been there.
27:58 So,
27:58 we don't have a problem of refugees not,
28:00 uh,
28:01 you know,
28:01 having any access to,
28:02 to,
28:02 to,
28:02 to,
28:03 to,
28:03 to,
28:03 you know,
28:04 labor market.
28:05 And then also go to the policies that the government of Lesotho has.
28:09 We,
28:10 we can talk of 1983 FG Act.
28:13 Which is very,
28:14 very liberal in terms of the rights of refugees because uh
28:17 those rights that are envisaged in the conventions,
28:20 our laws are saying refugees will enjoy those uh
28:23 uh uh rights
28:24 that are envisaged in,
28:26 you know,
28:27 international conventions being 1951 as well as
28:30 OEU convention,
28:31 those rights,
28:31 we took them as they are.
28:33 We don't have any,
28:34 any reservations as far as the refugees are concerned.
28:38 We also have uh uh our own uh national uh migration and development policy.
28:44 Which,
28:44 uh,
28:44 also has some refugee issues in them.
28:48 So that,
28:48 uh,
28:49 because the government feels that uh in order
28:51 for us to maximize the benefits of migration,
28:54 we should uh include these issues,
28:56 uh,
28:56 on our national migration development policy while at the same time,
28:59 the government tries to minimize the negatives thereof.
29:03 We also have our own uh uh policy,
29:05 which is a big one,
29:06 national strategy.
29:08 Uh,
29:08 uh,
29:08 and development,
29:09 uh,
29:09 uh,
29:09 uh,
29:10 policy.
29:12 Which,
29:12 uh,
29:12 uh,
29:12 has also integrated refugee issues in,
29:15 and it is a big,
29:15 uh,
29:16 uh,
29:16 uh,
29:17 a big,
29:17 uh,
29:17 policy for our government.
29:19 And as long as the,
29:20 the issues are in that,
29:21 uh,
29:21 big,
29:22 uh,
29:22 strategic framework for the government,
29:24 then it attracts the pool,
29:26 I mean,
29:26 the,
29:26 the funding from government because once it is there,
29:28 then the government can easily fund
29:30 because they're it's part of the,
29:31 uh,
29:32 government,
29:32 uh,
29:32 uh,
29:32 budget.
29:34 We also have uh our own national identity and civil registry.
29:38 Which also allows for refugees to be registered.
29:41 Children are registered
29:43 and then all referees are part and parcel of our national population register.
29:47 And they're issued with the ID and this ID allows them to,
29:50 to,
29:50 to actually work.
29:51 The kids can go to school,
29:52 but those below 16 years,
29:54 we,
29:54 we issue them with a,
29:56 a,
29:56 a,
29:56 a,
29:57 a,
29:57 a specialized identity number
29:59 which can also allow such a child to,
30:02 to,
30:02 to actually uh have a,
30:04 what do you call a
30:05 And 1,
30:06 I mean,
30:07 the UN travel document for them if they wish to travel.
30:09 So we don't have an incumbent policy.
30:11 Refugees can go
30:12 wherever they want in our country.
30:14 As long as,
30:15 uh,
30:16 uh,
30:16 uh,
30:16 you know,
30:16 they have something to do.
30:17 They are,
30:18 they are,
30:18 they are free to,
30:19 to travel.
30:19 No incumbent policy,
30:20 even when they die.
30:22 The government pays for them.
30:24 They do a free medical uh uh uh,
30:25 you know,
30:26 bills or those that work.
30:29 Uh,
30:29 minimal fees like Basotho because in government hospitals,
30:31 for example,
30:32 there is a minimal fee that they pay,
30:34 but those that are destitute,
30:35 the government takes care of them.
30:37 I think that is in as far as,
30:38 you know,
30:39 labor market is concerned.
30:40 Thank you very much,
30:41 and I submit.
30:43 Thank you.
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