00:00 Hello everyone.
00:00 Greetings and uh welcome to this uh this event.
00:04 Uh welcome to this World Refugee Day 3 event
00:07 on forced displacement and the role of research in the 21st century
00:12 which you may have seen is uh being recorded.
00:14 Uh,
00:15 this event is organized
00:16 by UNHCR,
00:17 the World Bank,
00:19 uh,
00:19 and UK Aid
00:20 to reflect on the experience of the UK funded program building the evidence
00:24 on forced displacement.
00:26 My name is Jeoli.
00:28 I am the senior advisor
00:30 on force displacement at the EU UNOP's
00:32 uh Lives in Dignity Grant Facility,
00:35 and I will be the moderator for,
00:37 uh,
00:37 this event today.
00:39 We have a,
00:40 a full program,
00:41 um,
00:42 and,
00:42 uh,
00:43 I,
00:43 I would say,
00:43 uh,
00:44 uh,
00:44 with a list of,
00:45 uh,
00:45 distinguished and very interesting topics,
00:47 distinguished speakers and very interesting topics to,
00:49 to,
00:49 uh,
00:50 to discuss and,
00:50 uh,
00:51 and hopefully,
00:52 uh,
00:52 a bit of time for interaction,
00:53 uh,
00:53 uh,
00:54 with the audience as well.
00:56 In a minute,
00:56 I will give the floor to our first speakers for the opening remarks.
01:00 Um,
01:01 uh,
01:02 and,
01:02 uh,
01:02 then we'll go to listen to 4 presentations
01:06 highlighting the work that has been done
01:08 by this research program.
01:10 We will then have a discussion,
01:12 uh,
01:12 and,
01:12 and of course at the end of the closing session.
01:14 Um,
01:15 uh,
01:16 and all of that will aim,
01:17 uh,
01:18 to assess the progress made in force displacement research,
01:21 uh,
01:21 especially over the past decade,
01:23 um,
01:23 identify,
01:24 uh,
01:24 obstacles in the effective use of research
01:27 and reflect more broadly
01:29 on the role of research in humanitarian context,
01:31 uh,
01:32 today and,
01:32 uh,
01:32 and in,
01:33 in the future.
01:35 Before we fully start the,
01:36 the usual,
01:37 uh,
01:37 uh,
01:38 housekeeping rules,
01:39 especially for,
01:40 for,
01:40 uh,
01:40 uh,
01:40 our colleagues online.
01:42 Um,
01:43 so for those online,
01:44 please make sure that you mute,
01:46 uh,
01:46 your microphone when you're not speaking.
01:49 Turn on your camera if you can,
01:50 uh,
01:51 especially when you speak,
01:52 and it depends maybe a bit on your bandwidth.
01:55 Um,
01:56 if you can use a headset that improves the,
01:58 uh,
01:59 the sound quality,
02:00 then for those in the room,
02:02 since we have a,
02:02 a few,
02:03 uh,
02:03 speakers in the room and also during the,
02:05 the Q&A,
02:06 the exchanges,
02:07 uh,
02:07 the only requirement is try to make sure that you speak loud enough
02:10 for everyone to,
02:11 uh,
02:12 be able to hear you,
02:13 especially our colleagues online
02:14 and not too far from the microphones in the room.
02:17 And then for everyone,
02:19 uh,
02:19 me included,
02:20 we'll try to
02:21 keep to the allocated time.
02:22 Uh,
02:23 I will try to be,
02:24 uh,
02:24 diplomatic about that,
02:25 but also,
02:26 uh,
02:26 make sure that,
02:27 uh,
02:27 that we keep on track and we don't run into too many delays.
02:31 Um,
02:32 no,
02:32 now that,
02:33 uh,
02:33 all those details are,
02:34 I hope,
02:35 clear,
02:36 um,
02:36 I am delighted to,
02:37 uh,
02:37 turn to our first speaker,
02:39 which,
02:40 uh,
02:40 is,
02:41 uh,
02:41 um,
02:42 Miss,
02:42 uh,
02:42 Ms.
02:43 uh Sukena Khan,
02:45 uh,
02:45 director of the Fragility,
02:47 Conflict and Violence Group at the World Bank,
02:50 uh,
02:50 who is joining us online.
02:53 And,
02:53 uh,
02:54 we're very happy to,
02:55 uh,
02:55 to have you,
02:57 I can,
02:57 as the first speaker of today.
02:59 Uh,
02:59 the floor is yours and you have about 5 minutes for your opening remarks.
03:05 Thank you.
03:06 Thank you so very much.
03:06 Can you see me and hear me very well?
03:10 We do.
03:11 Thank you.
03:11 All right,
03:11 thank you.
03:12 Thank you,
03:12 and warm,
03:13 uh,
03:13 welcome to all of you from Washington DC.
03:17 I'm delighted to be here and to,
03:20 uh,
03:20 uh,
03:21 be part of this seminar on forced displacement and the role of research
03:26 in the 21st century.
03:27 But before
03:29 I turn to the topic,
03:30 uh,
03:31 just I would like to take a couple of minutes to reflect on the broader context.
03:35 In
03:36 2022,
03:37 as you know,
03:38 the world has surpassed the sad record of 100 million forcibly displaced persons.
03:45 This is the highest number
03:47 ever recorded.
03:48 And this trend reflects not only intensification of conflict and violence,
03:54 but
03:55 also it's a reflection of the fact that we have
03:58 not been successful in breaking decades-long displacement situation,
04:03 leaving millions living in exile
04:06 for generations.
04:09 Now,
04:09 recognizing that
04:11 most refugee situations become protracted,
04:14 the World Bank,
04:15 um,
04:16 we do take a development approach and
04:18 emphasize the importance of addressing the socio-economic needs
04:22 and aspirations of refugees and their host communities.
04:26 And of course,
04:27 data
04:28 is an integral part of our strategy,
04:30 our policy,
04:32 our dialogue,
04:33 our advocacy
04:34 on forced displacement.
04:36 Under our financing mechanism uh called IDA,
04:40 in particular under IDA 20.
04:43 From mid 2022 to year 2025
04:47 $2.4 billion have been allocated to promote medium to
04:52 long-term development opportunities for refugees and the host communities.
04:57 We are now,
04:58 uh,
04:58 as we speak,
04:59 uh,
05:00 in,
05:01 uh,
05:01 in the process of conducting a midterm review of the fragility,
05:05 conflict and violence strategy of the World Bank.
05:07 And
05:09 in this exercise,
05:10 we have great input from many partners including agencies represented today.
05:15 And
05:16 many of you during the consultation of
05:18 the strategy have reinforced the importance of data
05:22 to support evidence-based intervention.
05:25 So,
05:26 and as some of you already know,
05:29 our 2022 World Development Report provides a pathway to
05:35 Uh,
05:35 uh,
05:36 continued engagement on the issue of forced displacement.
05:40 In my view,
05:41 it's really a valuable guide on inclusive policies,
05:44 financial instruments,
05:45 and more regional approaches
05:47 to address cross-border dimension of forced displacement.
05:51 So we are really grateful to all of you for
05:53 your contribution to the report and for your strategic insights.
05:58 Now,
05:59 turning to research on forced displacement,
06:02 one
06:03 thing that we could say that it has made huge progress in the past 10 years.
06:07 A key element of this development has been the
06:10 partnership established between the World Bank and the UNHCR
06:14 first formalized in 2016 with the creation of the
06:17 UK funded Building the Evidence of forced displacement.
06:21 Research program in Washington DC
06:24 and more
06:25 recently
06:28 with the creation of the multi-dor
06:30 funded Joint Data Center,
06:32 the so-called JDC based in Copenhagen.
06:36 So thanks to this research,
06:37 we are in a much better position than 10 years ago
06:41 to understand
06:42 forced displacement crises and design better programs and policies.
06:47 For example,
06:48 we know that
06:49 displacement crises have on average
06:51 and in the long run positive economic outcomes for host communities.
06:56 We
06:56 learned,
06:57 we have learned that the effects hide a more complex picture
07:01 with adverse effects being short term,
07:03 localized and constrained to vulnerable groups.
07:06 We've learned that programs that target
07:08 these vulnerable groups are effective in mitigating
07:12 or even at some time reversing
07:14 the negative effects.
07:16 We learned that policies
07:18 that foster freedom to movement and freedom of work
07:21 do reduce the range and duration of
07:24 the negative effects for the displaced population
07:27 and their hosts.
07:29 So this was just a quick snapshot in a
07:32 few minutes allocated uh uh for this intervention,
07:36 uh,
07:37 you will hear
07:38 certainly more from the building,
07:40 the evidence on forced displacement research program on this experience,
07:44 on its findings,
07:45 the lessons in designing,
07:47 financing,
07:48 and disseminating research on forced displacement.
07:51 We will
07:51 then hopefully use
07:53 this experience to discuss more broadly what
07:55 is the role of the research of cooperation
07:58 with a very distinguished set of panelists that joined us from
08:02 uh WFP,
08:03 ICRC,
08:04 Johns Hopkins University,
08:05 the World Bank,
08:06 and UNHCR.
08:08 So please join me in welcoming all speakers and panelists,
08:11 and let me hand over to our moderator,
08:13 Jerome,
08:13 Eli,
08:14 who will guide us during the next one hour and a half.
08:16 Thank you.
08:17 Over to you,
08:17 Jerome.
08:18 Excellent.
08:19 Thanks a lot and thanks a lot for
08:21 even being shorter than uh,
08:22 than us.
08:23 Um,
08:24 we can now turn to our second speaker for the,
08:27 for the opening uh uh session,
08:29 Ms.
08:30 Betsy Lippmann,
08:30 Deputy Director
08:32 for the division of Resilience and Solutions at UNHCR
08:36 and who is in the room,
08:37 uh,
08:37 with us.
08:38 Uh,
08:38 for your opening remarks,
08:40 uh,
08:40 you have about 3 minutes,
08:41 and,
08:41 uh,
08:42 the few is
08:42 is yours.
08:43 Thank you.
08:43 Great,
08:43 thank you.
08:44 So with many,
08:45 many thanks to FCDO Sukena,
08:48 Paulo,
08:49 and Paula and other World Bank colleagues,
08:52 this was the first World Bank UNHCR multi-year research partnership
08:57 and has really paved the way for a deeper collaboration across our two institutions
09:02 around evidence generation to inform programming and policy.
09:06 Moreover,
09:07 over the past few years,
09:08 UNHCR has invested significantly in improving our data collection,
09:12 approaches and uses,
09:14 including through the new UNHCR Global Data Services,
09:18 data transformation strategy,
09:20 and the work of the World Bank UNHCR Joint Data Center.
09:24 The value of this collaboration with the World Bank and FCDO on socioeconomic
09:29 data and research
09:30 is at the heart of building our partnership with development actors,
09:34 actors whom you know are data-driven
09:36 in their allocation of financing.
09:39 The FCDOHCR World Bank Trust fund has helped UNHCR improve its data,
09:45 research capacity,
09:46 and analytical culture.
09:48 The 5 global questions reports of the reports frame the current current
09:53 evidence on key topics in meta literature reviews on social cohesion,
09:58 gender,
09:59 health,
10:00 education,
10:00 and jobs.
10:01 And this was decided in,
10:03 in,
10:03 uh,
10:04 collaboration
10:05 when we first started on what were some of the key topics that we wanted to invest in.
10:10 It provided critical sectoral and thematic insights
10:13 to delivering thoughtful programming and informed more
10:16 coordinated policy approaches by diverse stakeholders,
10:20 including bilateral,
10:21 multilateral development actors,
10:23 government,
10:23 and humanitarian actors.
10:26 Working with the World Bank through the building
10:28 of evidence of forced displacement trust fund,
10:30 we pioneered the use of UNHCR system to capture
10:34 individual refugee data,
10:35 what we call progress,
10:37 expanding its use well beyond
10:39 the individual case management.
10:41 Thanks to investments from this trust fund,
10:43 we have collaborated with the World Bank on expanding
10:46 our investments to using innovative approaches to model poverty,
10:50 for example.
10:52 This is an important area of work
10:54 as poverty data for low and middle income countries is often outdated,
10:58 let alone for refugees living in these countries where we have even less data.
11:03 Using innovative approaches to enhance data on
11:07 forcibly displaced is essential for UNHCR.
11:11 The Building Evidence Enforced Displacement Trust Fund was
11:13 a valuable learning experience for us at UNHCR.
11:17 It has produced more than 100 studies across 36 countries
11:22 and has been a major force in improving the evidence base.
11:26 The digestion of this work is only beginning
11:29 from the humanitarian community,
11:30 and we are keen to ensure that the data and evidence informs program,
11:35 policy,
11:35 and advocacy.
11:37 Our efforts of,
11:38 of UNHCR and our partners,
11:40 including host
11:41 and return governments.
11:43 So,
11:43 we look forward to uh,
11:45 a great,
11:45 a great discussion today and thank you all very much for participating.
11:50 Thank you.
11:50 Thanks a lot,
11:51 uh,
11:51 Betsy,
11:51 and,
11:51 uh,
11:52 uh,
11:53 I think,
11:53 uh,
11:53 two very interesting and uh
11:56 first presentation setting the scene really,
11:58 uh,
11:59 for the,
11:59 for the,
12:00 uh,
12:00 the event to come.
12:02 Um,
12:02 we will now turn to the four presentations,
12:05 uh,
12:05 which are,
12:06 um,
12:06 uh,
12:06 aiming at sharing uh the key outcomes,
12:09 the findings,
12:10 and,
12:10 uh,
12:10 also a few selected examples,
12:12 I understand
12:13 from the program building the evidence,
12:15 uh,
12:15 on for displacement.
12:16 Uh,
12:17 each of the four speakers will have about 7 minutes for a focused,
12:21 uh,
12:21 presentation on the,
12:22 on the,
12:23 the,
12:23 the topics that I just mentioned,
12:25 and we will start with,
12:26 uh,
12:26 Mr.
12:27 Paolo Verme,
12:28 Program Manager at the World Bank here in the room with us,
12:31 to my right.
12:32 Uh,
12:32 we will talk,
12:33 uh,
12:33 we will talk about the,
12:34 um,
12:34 key findings of the programs.
12:36 We'll,
12:36 we'll start with the key findings.
12:38 Uh,
12:38 Mr.
12:38 Verme,
12:39 the,
12:39 the floor is yours.
12:40 I think there is a PowerPoint presentation ongoing.
12:45 15.
12:46 OK.
12:48 Thank you,
12:49 uh,
12:50 very much.
12:50 Thanks to Sukena for the nice introduction to Betsy
12:55 for the introduction and also being with us throughout the 17 years of this program.
13:01 Uh,
13:01 and,
13:02 uh,
13:02 thanks to the UNHC for hosting us today.
13:06 What I'm going to do in the next 15 minutes
13:10 is to give you a presentation on the program.
13:13 So I will give you some background,
13:16 why we decided to do this program at the time.
13:19 Uh,
13:19 I will give you a program's overview looking at the inputs and outputs,
13:23 what we produce,
13:23 what we did during these,
13:25 uh,
13:25 7 years.
13:27 Uh,
13:27 some of the key findings where we have a certain
13:30 amount of solid evidence that backed these findings by now.
13:35 Um,
13:36 I will say something about the state of research on forced displacement as of today,
13:41 and then,
13:42 uh,
13:42 concludes with,
13:43 uh,
13:43 what we think are some of the impacts,
13:46 uh,
13:46 on policies and programs,
13:48 and then my colleague will expand on these issues
13:51 with,
13:51 uh,
13:52 some examples.
13:54 So,
13:55 um,
13:56 what is the background?
13:57 Well,
13:58 the background
13:59 is,
13:59 uh,
13:59 2011 and the Syrian crisis first,
14:03 uh,
14:03 the Arab Spring,
14:04 this is the context where we started at the World Bank to think about refugees.
14:08 Remember,
14:09 the World Bank,
14:09 uh,
14:10 uh,
14:10 overarching goal is to reduce poverty.
14:13 Refugees were not the top of our agenda 10 years ago.
14:17 Uh,
14:18 but they quickly became along the Syrian crisis.
14:22 Uh,
14:23 and then the 2015,
14:24 uh,
14:25 peak of the EU migration crisis
14:28 where EU governments essentially panicked around the
14:32 inflow of refugees and other migrants,
14:35 uh,
14:36 from different routes,
14:38 um,
14:38 and that eventually led To what we call the new result,
14:42 uh,
14:43 increase the political commitment from leaders,
14:46 uh,
14:46 across the world,
14:47 particularly in Europe,
14:48 and also increase financial means.
14:50 You may remember
14:52 the amount of money that were granted to Turkey
14:54 to ensure that Turkey would not open the borders,
14:58 uh,
14:58 and let refugees flow,
15:00 uh,
15:01 north to the EU.
15:03 So there was a great
15:05 new resolve and financial commitment,
15:08 uh,
15:08 to back that.
15:10 But of course,
15:10 we had an old problem,
15:12 which is the lack,
15:13 which was the lack of microdata and quality research on forced displacement.
15:17 I will show you a graph later on
15:21 that shows how little there was of quality research back in 2015,
15:26 201616 when we started.
15:28 So,
15:29 we decided that together with the UNHCR to do a
15:32 first experiment where in the context of Jordan and Lebanon,
15:35 you know,
15:36 a mass inflow of refugees in these two countries.
15:39 We did not know,
15:40 never done a poverty assessment of refugees before as the World Bank.
15:45 So we got together with the World Bank and the UNHCR and say,
15:48 look,
15:49 uh,
15:49 we know about poverty,
15:50 you know about refugees,
15:51 why don't we get together and write a,
15:53 a piece about poverty,
15:56 uh,
15:56 among refugees?
15:58 And of course,
15:58 the UNHCR had the data at the time,
16:01 both administrative data and survey data,
16:03 but were not used for this purpose,
16:05 uh,
16:05 in this fashion.
16:07 And so we did and uh this ended up in a,
16:09 a book that we published in 2016 that became an immediate hit.
16:14 We had,
16:15 you know,
16:15 more than 34,000 downloads
16:17 for publication that
16:19 was considered at the time to be niche publication.
16:23 And that led after the,
16:24 the book to uh the realization that we needed something more.
16:28 We needed,
16:29 we need a big program on both data
16:31 and research
16:32 and we established these partnerships through a,
16:35 a trust fund
16:36 called uh the Building Evidence on Forced Displacement entirely funded by the UK.
16:43 Um,
16:44 so these are the resources that we had.
16:47 Um,
16:48 the UK was very generous initially with $12 million.
16:52 Later,
16:52 the program for 4 years.
16:54 The program was later expanded to 7 years and $16 million.
16:59 So,
17:00 uh,
17:00 substantial amount of money to do,
17:02 uh,
17:03 research.
17:03 We were really free at the beginning to organize the research the way we wanted.
17:08 And eventually,
17:08 we organized ourselves in 8 pillars.
17:11 We decided to,
17:12 to do global studies for global questions,
17:15 uh,
17:15 impact evaluations of specific programs of the UNHCR,
17:19 World Bank,
17:19 or government programs,
17:21 uh,
17:22 focused studies on compelling questions that could have a faster turnaround.
17:27 We established a young Fellows program to hire young uh postdoc
17:32 to do research on forced displacement from low and middle-income countries.
17:36 We had a microdata initiative,
17:38 uh,
17:39 established a data portal for FCV for fragility,
17:42 conflict and,
17:42 and violence data,
17:45 uh,
17:45 had an update dissemination program,
17:48 and lately we established a training program.
17:52 Uh,
17:53 what did we do with this money and this time?
17:56 Uh,
17:56 we
17:57 produced 6 global,
17:59 uh,
17:59 research projects.
18:00 We financed 6 global research projects,
18:03 15 impact evaluations,
18:05 12,
18:06 uh,
18:06 focused studies.
18:07 Uh,
18:07 we hired 24 young fellows out of the initial pool of 5.
18:11 Over 5000 applicants.
18:13 These were
18:14 exceptionally well-educated,
18:16 uh,
18:16 uh,
18:17 young fellows from low and middle-income countries.
18:20 We established a data portal and a microdata program
18:23 that eventually was developed into the Jordan Data Center,
18:26 which,
18:27 uh,
18:28 uh,
18:28 we know of today.
18:29 Uh,
18:30 we also had a seminar series,
18:31 newsletters,
18:32 policy notes,
18:33 a web portal,
18:34 social media,
18:35 and the training program that I mentioned.
18:36 All of these produced a
18:38 total as of today of 134 separate studies
18:43 covering 36 countries
18:45 and having 200+ uh involved uh researchers.
18:51 Uh,
18:52 this is the distribution of the study,
18:53 the 134 that we mentioned,
18:56 uh,
18:56 by theme and by geographical area.
19:00 As you can see,
19:00 we covered the most,
19:02 uh,
19:03 uh,
19:04 in,
19:04 in,
19:04 uh,
19:04 critical areas,
19:05 uh,
19:06 and,
19:06 uh,
19:06 uh,
19:07 geographical areas and thematic areas.
19:09 Uh,
19:10 a lot of the work that we did was on social cohesion,
19:13 on gender,
19:14 uh,
19:15 health,
19:15 and jobs.
19:16 These were the main,
19:17 uh,
19:18 topics that were covered,
19:19 uh,
19:20 throughout,
19:20 uh,
19:20 the studies.
19:24 Um
19:25 With some quality indicators,
19:27 all the studies have been peer-reviewed and published with the exception
19:31 of 4 studies that did not get clearance for publications.
19:34 Uh,
19:35 we have already,
19:36 uh,
19:36 35 publications in refereed journals within one year of production,
19:41 including top economic journals
19:43 and also journals like Nature,
19:45 American Economic Review,
19:47 Economic,
19:47 uh,
19:48 European Economic Review,
19:49 Journal of the Journal of Economics,
19:50 and others.
19:51 Uh,
19:51 we have two special issues,
19:54 one in World Development and one in the Journal of the Journal of Studies.
19:57 Uh,
19:57 we have hired 24 postdoc young fellows who published their
20:01 work and were subsequently hired by the World Bank,
20:04 UNHCR,
20:05 and other international organizations,
20:07 a microdata program that became the JDC as I mentioned,
20:11 and generally positive annual evaluation from the
20:14 donor and final evaluation from the stakeholders.
20:20 Um,
20:20 so what are the key findings if you have heard in anticipation from,
20:24 uh,
20:24 Sokena?
20:25 I'd like to re-highlight some of these findings
20:29 because you won't be able to hear them from
20:32 from from politicians
20:34 or.
20:35 From,
20:35 uh,
20:36 uh,
20:37 um,
20:38 you know,
20:38 governments,
20:40 displacement crises have
20:42 on average and in the long run positive economic outcomes.
20:46 This is the bulk of evidence that we have throughout the 134 studies
20:51 and beyond.
20:52 Uh,
20:53 these average and long-term effects hide the more complex picture.
20:58 We have,
20:58 uh,
20:59 um,
20:59 losers in this process,
21:01 and they tend to be
21:03 in the short term,
21:04 localized to certain geographical areas
21:07 and concentrated among vulnerable groups,
21:10 particularly low-skilled people,
21:13 people working in the informal sector,
21:15 uh,
21:15 females and youth,
21:17 so the usual suspects.
21:19 There is nothing inevitable among the
21:21 negative externality of forced displacement crisis.
21:24 It is how government and international actors
21:27 respond to these challenges that matters.
21:30 So we've seen as a sort of natural
21:32 controlled experiment where some countries applied certain policy,
21:36 others did not,
21:37 and it was clear that when
21:39 governments are proactive,
21:41 they do the right policies,
21:43 they manage this crisis and reduce the negative effects of.
21:48 Uh,
21:49 largely.
21:50 Uh,
21:51 programs that target these vulnerable groups are effective
21:53 in mitigating or reversing the negative effects,
21:56 and policies that foster freedom of movement and freedom of
21:59 work reduce the range and duration of the negative effects.
22:01 So I'm re-emphasizing some of the points that
22:04 Sokena had at the beginning
22:06 because now,
22:07 as opposed to 10 years ago,
22:08 we do have the evidence to support these statements.
22:14 Uh,
22:15 some sector-specific key findings,
22:17 we have them in the labor markets,
22:19 and we know that the impact on,
22:21 uh,
22:22 employment and wages,
22:23 for example,
22:23 is generally not significant.
22:26 We know that,
22:26 uh,
22:27 uh,
22:27 in terms of healthcare,
22:29 the main obstacles are lack of data and financial resources.
22:33 Uh,
22:34 we know that,
22:34 uh,
22:35 in the space of social protection,
22:38 Uh,
22:38 it's a,
22:38 it's,
22:39 uh,
22:39 essential
22:41 to see how the parallel system of uh support aligns with the social protection
22:47 service,
22:48 services of the host countries,
22:51 um,
22:52 and,
22:52 uh,
22:52 it's essential that social protection contributes to social cohesion,
22:57 not just within the two communities,
22:59 host communities and refugees,
23:00 but also between the two commu communities.
23:03 We know that there are educational programs that work and also for these,
23:07 uh,
23:08 uh,
23:08 type of beneficiaries.
23:10 And we know that,
23:11 uh,
23:11 um,
23:12 uh,
23:13 FDPs are poor and vulnerable by now,
23:15 we've done these poverty studies in multiple countries,
23:19 but we also know that there are significant
23:21 differences along the gender dimension that we need
23:24 to be aware of.
23:26 Uh,
23:27 some important areas for future research,
23:29 uh,
23:29 we have identified a few that really have very little research,
23:33 the macro macroeconomics of forced displacement.
23:36 Uh,
23:37 think about that,
23:38 you know,
23:38 the impact of forced displacement crisis on,
23:41 uh,
23:42 GDP,
23:42 for example,
23:43 is something that has been extremely little studied with,
23:46 you know,
23:46 very little,
23:47 and,
23:47 and yet it's so important for the host country.
23:50 The impact,
23:51 of course,
23:51 is placed on infrastructure and utilities.
23:53 We know there are negative effects,
23:54 but mostly these are
23:56 anecdotal examples,
23:58 and we don't have the quantitative evidence of what
24:01 that really means.
24:03 Uh,
24:04 we do have some environmental assessment,
24:06 assessments,
24:07 the impact,
24:08 uh,
24:09 of,
24:09 uh,
24:11 forced displacement crisis on the environment,
24:14 but there's a
24:15 tendency not to do this,
24:17 not to create negative perceptions of refugees,
24:19 but yet they're important to do,
24:21 and they're connected with climate change and they're connected with,
24:25 uh,
24:25 uh,
24:26 conflict and displacement studies,
24:27 so they're important in their own right.
24:30 And poverty and well-being measurement,
24:31 while we have advanced a lot in that is still a long way to go to have a full picture of,
24:37 of what is the situation in the
24:39 course and following the forced displacement crisis.
24:41 Long-term and secondary impacts is another aspect.
24:46 Um,
24:48 so,
24:49 long story short,
24:50 we've been part of a process of exceptional growth in research.
24:56 Uh,
24:56 this is not just us,
24:57 this is the number of papers published
24:59 in economic journals with the words refugees,
25:01 IDPs,
25:02 or migrants in keywords and titles.
25:05 You can see that the curves
25:07 are essentially flat,
25:09 uh,
25:10 before 2015.
25:12 And then they suddenly spike during the,
25:15 the last 7 to 8 years.
25:19 Uh,
25:19 this is exactly what happened as a result of
25:22 the Syrian crisis and the following EU migration crisis,
25:26 uh,
25:26 but also a result of the fact that now we have a lot more data and
25:30 microdata in particular to do quality research that we did not have 10 years ago.
25:35 So 10 years ago,
25:36 we could not make the statements we made before,
25:39 now we can.
25:42 Uh,
25:42 so,
25:43 so what?
25:43 OK,
25:43 we're,
25:43 we've been good.
25:44 We have produced lots of research,
25:46 we have more data,
25:47 quality research,
25:49 but the questions we want to address today is really
25:52 do governments make better policies because of this research?
25:56 Are refugees and IDPs better off as a result of
25:59 these efforts and our programs more effective and cost efficient?
26:03 Now when you ask these questions,
26:05 it turns out that it's not that easy to answer these
26:07 questions and so this is what we're trying to do.
26:10 Uh,
26:11 uh,
26:11 next.
26:12 Thank you.
26:14 Thank you.
26:14 Thank you,
26:15 Paulo,
26:15 and uh I think now we're
26:17 going to turn to uh Ms.
26:19 Paula Eliche
26:20 uh who will bring 11 element to,
26:23 uh,
26:23 to address those questions.
26:24 Uh,
26:25 Paola is the,
26:26 is the impact evaluation Specialist at the World Bank
26:29 and she will be talking about the,
26:31 the use of impact evaluations,
26:33 uh,
26:33 in,
26:34 in this program.
26:35 Thank
26:35 you.
26:35 Indeed,
26:36 uh,
26:36 thanks,
26:36 uh,
26:37 thanks,
26:37 Jerome.
26:38 Um,
26:38 I will be focusing a presentation on impact evaluations
26:42 and,
26:42 uh,
26:43 this was one of the pillars of the,
26:45 uh,
26:45 broader research program.
26:47 And,
26:47 uh,
26:48 I will look into,
26:49 um,
26:51 Try to present how they've been helpful for uh programming,
26:54 for policy,
26:56 um,
26:57 and uh uh and projects as well.
27:04 Uh,
27:04 so,
27:05 uh,
27:05 broadly,
27:06 we have identified four ways,
27:07 um,
27:09 in which,
27:09 uh,
27:10 uh,
27:10 we really in relations in our program have been,
27:13 uh,
27:13 informing,
27:14 uh,
27:14 programming.
27:15 Uh,
27:16 they've been helpful,
27:17 um,
27:17 to test at small scale before or to inform scaling.
27:21 Um,
27:22 they have been helpful to evaluate already a scale projects,
27:25 uh,
27:25 and they've been helpful as well to test low-cost complementary interventions,
27:30 and finally,
27:31 also to provide evidence,
27:32 uh,
27:33 that can support,
27:33 uh,
27:34 and be used in advocacy efforts.
27:36 So going into each of these four ways that we've been,
27:39 uh,
27:40 um,
27:41 having benefiting from,
27:42 uh,
27:43 impact evaluations.
27:51 And,
27:52 uh,
27:52 so we have two examples,
27:54 uh,
27:54 one from Afghanistan and one,
27:55 from Jordan,
27:56 uh,
27:57 of impact abulations that were used to test a small scale,
28:00 uh,
28:00 and informed scaling.
28:02 In Afghanistan,
28:03 uh,
28:03 uh,
28:04 government,
28:04 uh,
28:04 graduation program was,
28:06 uh,
28:06 tested in,
28:07 in one province,
28:07 um,
28:08 um,
28:09 with a sample of 1200 households.
28:12 And uh the results were,
28:14 um,
28:15 significant and large impacts were found across outcomes
28:18 including a 30 30% points
28:22 uh improvement in consumption in the treatment group compared to a control group
28:27 and um reduction in poverty by 20% points again
28:30 in the treatment compared to a control group.
28:33 These results were very timely
28:35 and they informed the IDA replenishment uh process uh in the World Bank
28:39 as well as at the country level,
28:41 they informed,
28:42 um,
28:42 the scale-up of the project to other provinces.
28:45 Similarly,
28:46 in Jordan,
28:47 um,
28:48 the,
28:48 the Ministry of Education tested a social-emotional learning
28:52 intervention.
28:53 And again,
28:54 this,
28:55 um,
28:56 this evaluation as well delivered,
28:58 uh,
28:58 uh,
28:58 positive effects,
28:59 um,
29:00 uh,
29:00 of this intervention and these
29:02 findings are informing ongoing discussions now about possibly scaling up,
29:07 um,
29:08 the program at the national level,
29:09 um,
29:10 including it in the national curriculum.
29:16 Um,
29:17 another example is that the evaluation of,
29:19 um,
29:20 of a project that was already being implemented but that,
29:23 uh,
29:23 was subject to a sudden change
29:26 and this was the,
29:27 um,
29:27 cash reintegration assistance provided by the UNHCR to returnees,
29:31 African returnees returning from Pakistan.
29:34 Um,
29:34 because of budget,
29:35 uh,
29:36 changes,
29:36 um,
29:37 the amount given was reduced,
29:39 uh,
29:40 from
29:40 $350 USD per person in the household to 150.
29:44 Um,
29:45 this sudden policy change was used to evaluate vigorously and look at,
29:49 uh,
29:49 households that received an amount,
29:51 uh,
29:51 versus households that received a different amount.
29:53 And,
29:54 um,
29:55 it was found that the larger amount of houses that received
29:57 a larger amount were more likely to invest in the.
30:00 assets
30:01 including a house
30:02 and also significantly more likely to have uh legal documentation
30:06 and all these relied entirely,
30:08 almost entirely on using administrative data from the UNHCR and
30:12 these are the registration and the return uh monitoring data.
30:15 Um,
30:16 so really,
30:17 uh,
30:17 kind of like looking at an intervention that's being implemented and how,
30:21 uh,
30:21 changing it could,
30:22 uh,
30:23 affect,
30:23 uh,
30:23 um,
30:24 outcomes
30:26 and
30:27 As I mentioned,
30:28 another,
30:29 uh,
30:29 another value we've seen from impact relations is in testing low-cost,
30:32 uh,
30:33 complementary interventions.
30:34 So in Uganda,
30:35 in the context of a business,
30:37 uh,
30:37 support project and,
30:38 uh,
30:38 uh,
30:39 to rural,
30:39 uh,
30:40 to urban,
30:40 uh,
30:41 excuse me,
30:41 businesses,
30:42 uh,
30:42 in the capital,
30:44 a messaging,
30:45 uh,
30:45 was tested,
30:46 um,
30:47 uh,
30:47 that looked,
30:48 that explained to
30:50 Um,
30:50 business owners,
30:51 um,
30:52 Uganda's,
30:53 uh,
30:53 favorable,
30:54 uh,
30:54 policy towards,
30:55 uh,
30:55 displaced people,
30:57 and,
30:57 um,
30:58 um,
30:59 and it was found that this was effective in building social cohesion.
31:02 Business owners were more likely to,
31:05 um,
31:05 be favorable to accepting more refugees in the
31:07 country to extending the right to work to,
31:09 uh,
31:10 to more refugees in the country.
31:12 And,
31:12 uh,
31:12 in Kenya instead,
31:13 um,
31:14 an information,
31:15 uh,
31:15 provision intervention was tested in the context of a bigger
31:19 Um,
31:19 community-driven development project,
31:21 uh,
31:21 that looked at,
31:22 uh,
31:22 can we
31:23 improve participation of women in this,
31:25 um,
31:26 in the decision making processes of these projects
31:28 and,
31:29 uh,
31:29 this evaluation found,
31:30 uh,
31:31 no impact,
31:32 uh,
31:32 so looking at,
31:33 uh,
31:33 the control and the
31:34 intervention group there was no difference in women's participation
31:38 and so it was decided not to,
31:40 um,
31:41 yeah,
31:42 not to,
31:43 uh,
31:43 scale and not to,
31:45 uh,
31:45 move forward with it.
31:47 Um,
31:47 in Ethiopia,
31:48 similarly,
31:48 uh,
31:49 um,
31:49 an intervention was tested,
31:51 um,
31:52 coming from the psychology field on positive mental imagery,
31:55 um,
31:55 again,
31:56 low cost.
31:56 Can it be,
31:57 um,
31:59 uh,
32:00 tagged along to,
32:01 uh,
32:01 the broader work permits roll out in the country and can it have
32:05 positive,
32:05 uh,
32:06 can it improve outcomes,
32:07 labor market outcomes for,
32:08 for refugees?
32:09 Um,
32:10 the results were promising and,
32:11 uh,
32:12 discussions are ongoing on how to be possibly scaling it.
32:18 Um,
32:20 uh,
32:20 thanks.
32:20 And so this is my last,
32:21 uh,
32:22 um,
32:24 Um,
32:25 kind of like way,
32:26 uh,
32:26 we've,
32:27 uh,
32:27 foundations useful.
32:29 Um,
32:30 this was a study done in,
32:31 uh,
32:31 in Bangladesh.
32:32 Uh,
32:32 uh,
32:33 it's,
32:33 it's the first time we have a causal
32:35 estimate of the psychosocial value of employment.
32:38 It was,
32:39 uh,
32:39 um,
32:40 implemented through an experiment with 3 arms of control at cash,
32:43 and employment.
32:44 The findings are that employment
32:47 improves psychosocial well.
32:48 Be substantially more than cash alone,
32:51 mental health 4 times more than cash alone,
32:54 and among the um people that engaged in uh uh work activities,
32:59 66% were willing to continue working an additional week
33:03 free of charge.
33:04 So meaning people realize uh the added value of um of working,
33:09 um,
33:10 beyond the cash they receive,
33:11 the payment they received.
33:12 I concluding,
33:14 um.
33:15 In the next slide.
33:17 And,
33:18 similarly to what Paulo has been describing,
33:20 um,
33:22 more broadly for the research that has been uh augmenting in size,
33:25 we,
33:26 we observed the same,
33:27 uh,
33:27 with impact evaluation
33:28 at baseline.
33:29 So when we started this program,
33:31 there were evaluations being done of humanitarian programs
33:34 and the project evaluations,
33:36 but,
33:36 uh,
33:37 um,
33:37 not as much,
33:38 uh,
33:39 in terms of impact evaluation.
33:40 So in terms of,
33:41 uh,
33:41 rigorous,
33:42 um,
33:42 evaluations.
33:44 And where we are now.
33:45 Uh,
33:46 is,
33:46 uh,
33:46 we see there's a growing body of evidence,
33:49 uh,
33:49 thanks to numerous initiatives beyond
33:52 our joint program,
33:53 of course.
33:54 And we have evidence on graduation programs from at least 5 countries,
33:58 um,
33:59 so findings are,
34:00 are always,
34:01 uh,
34:01 kind of like
34:02 Um,
34:02 yeah,
34:03 um,
34:04 confirming each other in one another in different contexts,
34:07 uh,
34:07 so that,
34:08 that is great to see,
34:09 uh,
34:09 investments,
34:10 uh,
34:10 there are imputation investments being made in,
34:13 uh,
34:13 specific sectors and themes such as early
34:16 Childhood development,
34:17 livelihoods,
34:18 and gender
34:19 and um the general improvement in the data ecosystem,
34:23 um,
34:24 and the hiring of dedicated staff as well in humanitarian organizations
34:28 we expect will boost further um the impact evaluation capacity
34:32 and also make it,
34:33 uh,
34:33 uh,
34:34 more,
34:34 more demand driven.
34:36 So,
34:36 um,
34:37 I will end there.
34:38 Thank you.
34:38 Thank you.
34:38 Thank you.
34:39 Thank you,
34:39 thanks a lot for that.
34:40 Very,
34:40 uh,
34:41 insightful,
34:42 uh,
34:42 uh,
34:42 presentation giving a lot of,
34:44 of details,
34:45 uh,
34:45 and,
34:45 uh,
34:46 I'm sure it's going to be the same with our
34:47 next speaker to my right,
34:49 um,
34:49 is,
34:50 uh,
34:50 Teresa Beltramo,
34:51 senior economist at UNHCR,
34:53 uh,
34:54 who will talk about our own experience,
34:56 uh,
34:56 conducting research,
34:57 uh,
34:57 in this program.
34:59 Lisa,
34:59 sure,
35:00 thanks.
35:00 I'd,
35:00 I'd like to just,
35:01 um,
35:02 cite two examples,
35:04 uh,
35:04 just building on
35:05 the work
35:06 already discussed,
35:07 so.
35:09 That,
35:09 you know,
35:09 where we've seen the impact of evidence on the ground and how it's impacted,
35:13 uh,
35:14 forcibly displaced,
35:15 uh,
35:15 their lives.
35:16 So one
35:17 example I'd like to give is,
35:18 uh,
35:19 is in Bangladesh.
35:20 So,
35:20 um,
35:22 the 900,000+ people who live in the Cox Bazaar refugee camps,
35:26 uh,
35:26 in,
35:26 in Bangladesh,
35:27 uh,
35:28 you know,
35:29 uh,
35:29 they,
35:29 they
35:30 depend heavily on assistance from UNHCR,
35:33 uh,
35:33 and other humanitarian actors,
35:34 um.
35:36 And in fact,
35:36 the only way that they can earn income is through
35:39 uh
35:40 this,
35:40 what's called the volunteer indoor cash for work
35:43 program that is managed by humanitarian and,
35:45 and the government.
35:46 Uh,
35:47 uh,
35:48 so,
35:49 you know,
35:49 some,
35:50 um,
35:50 90% of refugee families actually benefit from this program,
35:54 as it's the only income generation program in addition to assistance.
35:58 So,
35:58 um,
36:00 You know,
36:00 uh,
36:01 and then,
36:02 uh,
36:02 in 2021,
36:04 the government expressed concern about the,
36:06 the cash earned through the volunteer programs,
36:08 uh,
36:08 and we're considering,
36:10 uh,
36:10 you know,
36:10 a potential suspension of this program.
36:12 So,
36:13 you know,
36:13 following these concerns,
36:14 UNHCR and Yale University led a,
36:17 a survey that collected information
36:19 on the economic lives,
36:20 uh,
36:21 uh,
36:21 the cash for work and refugee volunteers,
36:24 uh,
36:24 and we quantified the impact,
36:26 um,
36:27 Of these programs on household welfare.
36:29 Um,
36:29 and the study published in 2022,
36:32 uh,
36:32 shows that 88% of refugees spent,
36:35 uh,
36:35 their incomes on basic family needs,
36:37 and,
36:38 you know,
36:39 uh,
36:39 that went unmet despite the humanitarian assistance.
36:42 So that this program was a critical,
36:44 uh,
36:44 element of completing the minimum expenditure basket for,
36:47 uh,
36:47 refugees in Bangladesh.
36:49 Um.
36:50 And uh this study was,
36:52 you know,
36:52 widely shared with the government,
36:54 uh,
36:54 and,
36:55 uh,
36:55 you know,
36:56 the,
36:56 the case was made that this program needs to be sustained,
36:59 uh,
37:00 and,
37:00 in fact,
37:01 the program was sustained,
37:02 and in fact,
37:03 the wages were actually revised upwards.
37:05 Uh,
37:05 so this is a successful example of how refugees
37:08 are benefiting from evidence,
37:10 uh,
37:12 you know,
37:12 we've,
37:12 we've generated it collectively,
37:14 uh.
37:15 Together.
37:16 So,
37:16 let me also focus,
37:17 uh,
37:18 a little bit more on the,
37:19 the work we've done on poverty,
37:21 and kind of underline a little bit more,
37:23 um,
37:24 You know,
37:25 how the,
37:25 the building,
37:26 uh,
37:26 the evidence on forced displacement trust fund has contributed,
37:28 I think,
37:29 um,
37:30 You know,
37:30 uh,
37:31 this,
37:31 this work we've done,
37:32 uh,
37:33 together between UNHCR and the World Bank has,
37:35 um,
37:35 really pioneered the use of UNHCR registration data,
37:39 as,
37:39 as Betsy has,
37:40 has,
37:40 has mentioned up front,
37:41 which,
37:42 uh,
37:42 UNHR,
37:43 uh,
37:43 in many countries collects,
37:44 uh,
37:45 uh,
37:45 uh,
37:45 administrative data,
37:47 uh,
37:48 for,
37:48 uh,
37:49 primarily case management activities.
37:51 This was the origin of,
37:52 of this data.
37:53 So,
37:53 uh,
37:53 this can be anything from refugee status determination to,
37:56 uh,
37:57 Uh,
37:58 you know,
37:59 um,
38:00 uh,
38:00 resettlement,
38:01 this can be,
38:01 you know,
38:02 identifying vulnerabilities,
38:03 but,
38:04 um,
38:05 We kind of recognize thanks uh to our partnership,
38:08 uh,
38:08 with the banking collaboration,
38:10 the value of this uh data in doing other things.
38:13 And so,
38:13 uh,
38:14 through the trust fund,
38:15 you know,
38:15 we've,
38:15 uh,
38:16 we've been able to invest on using some innovative approaches to,
38:20 uh,
38:21 assessing,
38:22 uh,
38:22 shining a light on,
38:23 uh,
38:24 key comparable socioeconomic data and,
38:26 and particularly in this case on poverty.
38:28 Um.
38:30 So,
38:30 to do that,
38:31 um,
38:32 you know,
38:33 uh,
38:34 it's really critical for us to,
38:35 to be able to measure poverty,
38:37 uh,
38:38 for,
38:38 for forcibly displaced and stateless,
38:39 as,
38:40 uh,
38:40 this is,
38:41 uh,
38:41 you know,
38:43 essential to be able to track the,
38:45 uh,
38:45 sustainable Development Goal one,
38:47 and the outcomes,
38:48 uh,
38:48 and
38:49 to leave no one behind.
38:50 Uh,
38:51 and then particularly measuring poverty can be especially important in,
38:55 in countries,
38:55 developing countries and other
38:57 settings where,
38:58 um,
38:58 governments need to determine
39:00 who the most vulnerable is,
39:01 um,
39:01 and to effectively target development programs.
39:04 So,
39:04 um,
39:06 And you know,
39:06 UNH by UNHR's latest estimates,
39:08 uh,
39:09 uh,
39:10 some 90% of forcibly displaced live in low and middle income countries.
39:14 And at the same time,
39:15 you know,
39:15 not only is it,
39:16 I mean,
39:17 there's still a tremendous dearth of,
39:18 of data on,
39:19 uh,
39:20 refugee or forced to be displaced in stateless poverty,
39:23 though we have been investing through,
39:25 uh,
39:26 the,
39:26 the,
39:26 the Joint Data Center,
39:27 this is uh definitely a core investment,
39:30 uh,
39:30 but still,
39:31 um,
39:32 You know,
39:33 not only is there,
39:33 there very limited data on poverty,
39:35 but there's very limited data even
39:37 uh in,
39:38 in low in in uh
39:40 low income countries that host refugees.
39:42 So,
39:42 some,
39:43 uh,
39:44 an estimate of some 500 million people.
39:46 Uh,
39:47 reside in,
39:48 uh,
39:48 fragility,
39:49 conflict,
39:49 and violence,
39:50 uh,
39:50 settings that,
39:51 um,
39:51 which includes the majority of displaced people,
39:54 uh,
39:54 that do not have poverty data or,
39:56 or have outdated poverty data.
39:58 So this is a,
39:58 a real issue.
39:59 So being able to
40:01 think creatively about generating this data is,
40:03 is really important for,
40:04 um,
40:05 both humanitarian development and,
40:06 and all actors,
40:07 government in the response.
40:09 Um,
40:10 so two critical evidence pieces have been generated from the FCDO
40:14 funded,
40:14 uh,
40:14 trust fund.
40:15 So in CHAD,
40:17 Uh,
40:17 at the time we were writing the paper,
40:18 uh,
40:18 UNHCR and the World Bank generated the first estimates,
40:21 uh,
40:21 for poverty,
40:22 uh,
40:23 among refugees in Chad,
40:24 um.
40:25 And to do that,
40:26 we combined,
40:27 again,
40:27 administrative data from UNHR and survey data,
40:30 and we estimate that some 90% of the refugees
40:33 living in Chad are below the national poverty line,
40:36 which is,
40:36 uh,
40:36 in comparison to the latest estimate of 42% of nationals.
40:40 Uh,
40:41 and in Jordan,
40:42 work funded by the Trust fund,
40:43 um,
40:44 Shows that imputation,
40:46 uh,
40:46 because they had,
40:47 uh,
40:48 the,
40:48 the colleagues at the bank who who led this work
40:51 were able to to,
40:51 to compare with actual poverty estimates,
40:54 so they were able to use this new
40:55 imputation approach,
40:56 this innovative approach to be able to,
40:58 uh,
40:59 to do more with less,
41:00 uh,
41:00 data essentially and try to,
41:02 uh,
41:02 generate the statistics,
41:04 uh,
41:05 on poverty,
41:05 and they're able to show that,
41:06 um,
41:08 the,
41:08 um.
41:09 Non-predicted consumption-based poverty rates,
41:11 uh,
41:12 were,
41:12 were robust to validation tests so that this method is,
41:16 is,
41:16 is working.
41:17 And so this is
41:18 really engenders a lot of,
41:20 um,
41:21 positive movement for the future.
41:22 And in fact,
41:23 uh,
41:24 this critical investment,
41:25 uh,
41:25 there's already ongoing work that we're following up on and,
41:28 uh,
41:28 we're,
41:28 we're doing work now in
41:30 estimating poverty among refugees in Colombia.
41:33 Uh,
41:33 also in Bangladesh,
41:35 and then in IDPs in Ukraine.
41:36 So I think
41:37 this new innovative method is,
41:39 uh,
41:40 you know,
41:40 very much,
41:41 uh,
41:42 something we will continue to pursue,
41:43 pursue,
41:44 and is part of our
41:46 efforts at UNHCR to do
41:48 more with less data and,
41:49 um,
41:50 to,
41:50 to be able to be creative.
41:52 Um.
41:54 We stop there
41:55 and I,
41:55 yeah,
41:56 turn back to you.
41:56 OK,
41:57 thanks.
41:58 Thanks a lot,
41:58 uh,
41:59 uh,
41:59 also for this,
41:59 uh,
42:00 this very interesting presentation.
42:01 Uh,
42:01 we're going to now,
42:03 uh,
42:04 move to the last,
42:05 uh,
42:05 presentation,
42:06 uh,
42:06 uh,
42:06 for this section,
42:08 uh,
42:08 going back to,
42:09 uh,
42:09 to the online,
42:10 uh,
42:10 speakers
42:11 with,
42:12 uh,
42:12 Mr.
42:12 Oscar Sanchez Pinheiro,
42:14 uh,
42:15 deputy UNHCR representative in Brazil.
42:18 be talking online.
42:19 I'm not seeing you yet,
42:21 but I,
42:21 I hope we'll see you when you start talking and you will be,
42:24 uh,
42:25 talking about the experience,
42:26 of course,
42:26 of the Braz Brazil,
42:27 uh,
42:28 UNHCR office
42:29 with the program.
42:30 Uh,
42:31 Mr.
42:32 Sanchez Pinero,
42:33 the floor is yours.
42:36 Thank you,
42:36 thank you so much.
42:37 How do you hear me?
42:39 Can you speak closer to the microphone?
42:40 We don't hear you.
42:42 Better is that any better?
42:43 Thank you.
42:44 Yeah,
42:45 great,
42:45 great.
42:46 So thank you so much.
42:47 Um,
42:48 apologies,
42:49 uh,
42:49 David,
42:50 who's the rep who couldn't be here,
42:51 uh,
42:52 today.
42:52 Uh,
42:52 you get,
42:53 uh,
42:54 slightly better looking version,
42:56 uh,
42:56 but probably not as smart,
42:57 but
42:58 please,
42:59 please don't tell him that because he's still my supervisor.
43:01 So,
43:02 um.
43:04 So,
43:04 thank you so much,
43:05 uh,
43:06 you know,
43:06 for the opportunity to present,
43:07 uh,
43:08 our work.
43:08 Uh,
43:09 we have,
43:10 um,
43:11 uh,
43:11 Nicolas online as well,
43:12 who's the lead economist that's helping us with much of this work,
43:16 uh,
43:16 from UNHTR perspective,
43:17 and this is part of the kind of,
43:19 uh,
43:19 building of capacity within UHTR to,
43:21 uh,
43:22 provide
43:22 better data and tackle problems.
43:25 Uh,
43:26 thank you,
43:26 uh,
43:27 Paulo,
43:27 for,
43:27 for the presentation and also,
43:29 uh,
43:29 Teresa and,
43:30 and Betsy for all the support.
43:32 Uh,
43:32 that you have provided throughout and of course,
43:35 UK Aid,
43:36 uh,
43:36 for,
43:36 for the wonderful,
43:38 uh,
43:38 contribution for us to be able to get better data.
43:41 Just out of context before I go into the,
43:44 the work that we have done,
43:45 uh,
43:45 we have over 500,000,
43:47 uh,
43:48 refugees and,
43:49 uh,
43:49 people in need of international protection in Brazil.
43:52 Out of those we have already 100,000
43:56 refugees that have been recognized as such by the Brazilian government,
44:01 so it is a country that has welcomed um uh
44:05 both from Venezuela but uh people as far as
44:08 Afghanistan that are now uh arriving,
44:10 um,
44:11 quite rapidly to,
44:12 to Brazil,
44:13 uh,
44:14 Ukrainians,
44:15 and also,
44:16 um,
44:16 uh,
44:17 refugees from the Middle East,
44:18 so it is a very diverse group.
44:21 And
44:22 it is a big country with a lot of um lack of data.
44:25 So,
44:26 I think,
44:27 uh,
44:27 our colleagues in OA have coined
44:30 uh the term that coordination saves lives.
44:32 I think,
44:33 uh,
44:33 for us,
44:34 data,
44:34 uh,
44:35 creates solutions
44:36 and the studies that we have been able to manage to conduct,
44:40 uh,
44:40 through the,
44:40 this wonderful support and collaboration
44:43 are critical for us to engage at a political level,
44:46 uh,
44:46 but also an operational level.
44:49 So,
44:49 the first one,
44:50 was about the,
44:51 the,
44:51 the local integration capacities.
44:54 Uh,
44:54 within,
44:55 within Brazil,
44:56 uh,
44:57 many of the people that are arriving from Venezuela particularly,
45:00 uh,
45:00 do so through the north,
45:02 uh,
45:02 with the Amazon region.
45:04 And it's the,
45:05 the poorest states,
45:06 uh,
45:07 one of the poorest states in the,
45:09 in the federation.
45:10 So,
45:10 uh,
45:11 local capacities are quite,
45:12 uh,
45:13 weak.
45:14 Um,
45:14 the study,
45:15 uh,
45:15 concentrated on to see what is the access
45:18 for Venezuelan refugees on the formal labor market
45:21 and they had 70% less access to that labor market.
45:26 Uh,
45:26 likewise,
45:26 it was,
45:27 um,
45:28 uh,
45:29 uh,
45:29 impacting the,
45:30 the access to education.
45:31 So,
45:32 um,
45:32 children,
45:33 uh,
45:33 were asking 50% less access to education
45:37 in,
45:37 in that particular region.
45:39 And 30% access to social assistance.
45:42 So this was a very powerful study that allowed us to uh re-shift our focus and also to
45:48 be able to provide some uh policy guidelines for the government to,
45:52 to be able to tackle
45:53 uh uh accessing issues.
45:56 Mind you,
45:56 the,
45:57 the legal framework within Brazil is very welcoming,
45:59 um,
46:00 uh,
46:00 so there's no legal barriers for,
46:03 uh,
46:03 refugees to access any of those,
46:05 uh,
46:06 sectors,
46:06 not the labor market,
46:07 not the health,
46:08 uh,
46:08 not the education.
46:10 So it was more about what non,
46:12 uh,
46:13 you know,
46:13 uh,
46:14 non-formal uh barriers were
46:16 erected so we could tackle them from a policy,
46:19 uh,
46:19 level.
46:20 The second study that I think was,
46:21 uh,
46:21 also very impactful,
46:23 especially,
46:24 uh,
46:24 to work with the local authorities
46:26 was about,
46:27 uh,
46:27 and also the narrative,
46:28 uh,
46:28 that is often constructed.
46:31 And as Paulo mentioned,
46:32 uh,
46:33 not really recognized by politicians,
46:36 it's about the fiscal impact.
46:38 And the fiscal impact,
46:39 uh,
46:39 when we measure it,
46:40 we measured,
46:41 there was not,
46:42 uh,
46:43 a,
46:43 a significant increase
46:44 in expenditure of social assistance,
46:47 but there was,
46:47 uh,
46:48 uh,
46:48 an uptake on tax,
46:50 uh,
46:50 consumption,
46:51 and,
46:51 and so a balance,
46:53 uh,
46:53 there was a balance,
46:54 um,
46:55 uh,
46:55 on the full impact to,
46:56 to the local economy.
46:58 So these are uh very important uh studies that we,
47:02 we've done with the bank.
47:03 I think,
47:04 uh,
47:04 as we move forward and the,
47:06 the situation becomes protracted.
47:09 We need to,
47:09 to leverage additional
47:11 uh data that will be able to uh provide
47:14 indications for the uh national policy that we're
47:18 developing at the moment with the government.
47:20 So,
47:20 the new government,
47:21 as you know,
47:21 uh,
47:22 uh,
47:22 President Lula won an election,
47:24 uh,
47:24 late last year,
47:25 and,
47:26 uh,
47:26 came into office in January.
47:28 We've been working with the transition team even
47:31 Uh,
47:31 before,
47:32 uh,
47:32 he took office
47:34 and have been providing a lot of this data in order to,
47:37 uh,
47:37 um,
47:38 impact on the policy.
47:40 I'll go right to the,
47:42 uh,
47:42 sort of,
47:43 sort of the,
47:44 the question,
47:44 the so what questions that,
47:45 that Paulo uh proposed.
47:47 Uh,
47:48 do,
47:49 do governments enact uh better policies because of this research and Paulo,
47:53 I could confirm that it does.
47:56 So I can confirm that,
47:57 so we are working on this national
47:59 uh policy that,
48:00 uh,
48:01 hopefully will integrate
48:02 a lot of these,
48:03 uh,
48:03 barriers that I mentioned before into the design of the new,
48:06 the new law.
48:07 Um.
48:08 Are refugees and IDPs better off that,
48:10 that we,
48:11 you,
48:11 we challenge here the,
48:13 the PAC and also the,
48:14 all of us around the table to work with us because we've been
48:17 Uh,
48:18 promoting the,
48:18 the possibility to have a counterfactual,
48:20 which,
48:21 of course,
48:22 is very difficult to do,
48:23 we know,
48:23 but we have a natural
48:25 uh kind of case study which is the Haitians that
48:28 arrived uh after the earthquake in Brazil
48:31 and didn't receive um uh a lot of support at least from,
48:35 from UHTR initially because
48:37 they were not deemed to be
48:38 uh persons of concern according to the 51 convention.
48:42 Um,
48:43 and then the,
48:43 the one that I'm really,
48:44 uh,
48:45 and with the help of Nicholas,
48:47 uh,
48:47 working on is the,
48:48 the cost,
48:49 cost efficiency and,
48:50 and cost effectiveness of our programming.
48:52 And this is very tricky because usually,
48:54 uh,
48:55 uh,
48:55 UHR,
48:56 um,
48:58 I mean,
48:58 you were mentioning the,
48:59 the case that the rest of,
49:00 of Bangladesh.
49:01 I was there when we established that,
49:03 uh,
49:03 cash incentives and we did it very quickly because of the
49:06 Uh,
49:07 pressures we were having at that particular moment about,
49:09 you know,
49:10 uh,
49:10 providing,
49:11 uh,
49:12 CBI programs for,
49:13 for the refugees
49:14 and we didn't establish the,
49:15 the baseline.
49:16 So what we're trying to do now is to make sure we have baselines that we could
49:20 measure the impact in the future
49:22 of,
49:22 of our programs.
49:24 So this is the,
49:25 to,
49:26 to get back although this is only,
49:28 you know,
49:29 uh anecdotal evidence,
49:30 Paulo,
49:30 but I think we could work and we would love to work with you
49:33 a lot more
49:34 on,
49:35 on the,
49:35 those questions that you or those challenging questions you provided,
49:39 uh,
49:39 to be able to
49:40 uh to have a proper evidence uh based uh answers on that.
49:46 Um,
49:46 so yeah,
49:47 again,
49:47 uh,
49:48 for,
49:48 for us,
49:49 data is the,
49:50 the avenue to provide solutions,
49:52 especially working with administrations,
49:54 uh,
49:54 local policymakers,
49:56 and,
49:56 and local governments to be able to integrate rapidly,
49:59 uh,
50:00 refugees into their economy and into society.
50:03 Thank you so much.
50:05 Thank you.
50:06 Thanks a lot.
50:06 Uh,
50:07 and I think it was a
50:09 perfect alignment of,
50:10 uh,
50:10 of,
50:10 uh,
50:11 of interventions implementation.
50:12 And the last one,
50:13 getting a bit more into the,
50:15 the practical implications and how this research can actually help and
50:19 help answer the so what questions and help,
50:21 uh,
50:22 uh,
50:22 program.
50:23 Uh,
50:23 so that's,
50:23 uh,
50:24 that's an interesting element that will also be
50:27 a part of the next,
50:27 uh,
50:28 session that we are going to now,
50:30 which is,
50:30 uh,
50:31 uh,
50:31 a discussion.
50:33 Uh,
50:33 with,
50:33 uh,
50:33 with,
50:34 uh,
50:34 our,
50:35 uh,
50:35 uh,
50:36 high-level,
50:36 uh,
50:36 panel,
50:37 uh,
50:37 4 panelists on the role of research
50:40 for projects,
50:41 uh,
50:41 in force displacement context and the way forward,
50:43 uh,
50:43 in this field.
50:44 So again,
50:45 the way forward.
50:46 Uh,
50:46 so we'll have,
50:46 as I said,
50:47 uh,
50:48 4,
50:48 panelists here and it's,
50:50 we,
50:50 we hope to have something a bit,
50:51 uh,
50:52 a bit more dynamic,
50:53 although there are questions to be answered.
50:55 Uh,
50:56 so,
50:56 uh,
50:56 so also a bit scripted,
50:57 but,
50:58 uh,
50:58 also including,
50:59 um,
51:00 uh,
51:00 time for Q&A I think,
51:01 uh,
51:01 I hope at the end.
51:03 Uh,
51:03 4 panelists,
51:04 so I said,
51:04 so we will have,
51:05 I will introduce them,
51:06 uh,
51:07 uh,
51:07 now so that,
51:08 uh,
51:08 uh,
51:09 uh,
51:09 we are,
51:09 we are,
51:10 are clear about the,
51:11 the,
51:11 uh,
51:12 interventions.
51:13 Um,
51:13 we will
51:14 hear from,
51:15 uh,
51:15 Mr.
51:15 Arif Hussain,
51:17 uh,
51:17 Chief economist,
51:18 uh,
51:18 at the World Food Program,
51:19 who is
51:20 with us online.
51:21 We will,
51:22 uh,
51:22 also,
51:23 uh,
51:23 have Mr.
51:24 Paul Spiegel.
51:25 Uh,
51:26 director
51:27 at the Center for Humanitarian Health at
51:29 Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health,
51:32 also online.
51:33 Uh,
51:34 we will,
51:34 uh,
51:35 again welcome,
51:36 uh,
51:37 Betsy,
51:37 Betsy Littmann.
51:38 Uh,
51:39 Deputy Director of the Division of Resilience and
51:41 Solutions at UNHCR here in the room,
51:44 and,
51:44 uh,
51:45 last but not least,
51:46 Mr.
51:46 Nazim Ayadat,
51:48 uh,
51:49 online,
51:49 joining online with the Global Advisor
51:51 on internal displacement at the International
51:54 Committee of the,
51:55 uh,
51:55 Red Cross ICRC
51:57 also online.
51:58 Um,
51:59 just a few,
52:00 uh,
52:00 a few elements before we start.
52:02 Uh,
52:02 so with the organizers,
52:04 we have prepared a kind of three sets of,
52:06 uh,
52:06 of questions,
52:08 uh,
52:08 that we would really like to,
52:10 to hear our panelists,
52:11 uh,
52:11 uh,
52:11 perspectives about.
52:13 Um,
52:13 I will go through,
52:14 3 rounds,
52:15 uh,
52:16 asking each panelist,
52:17 uh,
52:17 to provide reflections on those,
52:18 uh,
52:18 on those,
52:19 uh,
52:19 questions
52:20 for about 3 minutes if possible.
52:22 Um,
52:23 and then,
52:24 uh,
52:24 we will turn to the next round of questions.
52:26 Um,
52:27 at the end,
52:28 uh,
52:28 as I said,
52:29 we should have time for a,
52:30 for a Q&A,
52:31 uh,
52:32 with the audience
52:33 online and in the room.
52:34 So prepare your questions,
52:36 uh,
52:36 those online,
52:37 in particular,
52:37 you can,
52:38 uh,
52:39 type them in the chat and,
52:40 uh,
52:40 we'll make sure to,
52:41 uh,
52:42 to,
52:42 to,
52:42 uh,
52:42 alternate between,
52:43 uh,
52:43 uh,
52:44 the room and online,
52:45 uh,
52:47 depending also on the time we,
52:48 we have left.
52:50 So,
52:51 first question,
52:51 first set of questions that we have,
52:54 um,
52:54 is the following.
52:55 So as we've,
52:56 as we've seen and we've heard,
52:57 a researcher for displacement has significantly expanded
53:01 over the past 10 years.
53:04 Uh,
53:04 but as,
53:05 as this increased,
53:06 uh,
53:06 volume of research made,
53:07 uh,
53:08 a difference for operations,
53:09 so again,
53:10 linking to,
53:11 uh,
53:11 the last,
53:12 uh,
53:12 uh,
53:12 uh,
53:13 presentation we had.
53:14 Uh,
53:14 can you think of one illustrative example
53:17 where,
53:17 uh,
53:17 where,
53:18 when research findings
53:19 have been used to change
53:21 a policy program or a project,
53:23 uh,
53:23 and can you identify,
53:25 uh,
53:25 the factors that,
53:26 that made the,
53:26 uh,
53:26 uh,
53:27 that change happen?
53:28 So,
53:29 I'm going to ask,
53:31 uh,
53:31 in successive order our panelists to
53:34 address,
53:34 uh,
53:35 uh,
53:35 those,
53:35 those questions,
53:36 starting with you,
53:37 Mr.
53:38 uh Arif uh Hussain,
53:39 again,
53:40 Chief Economist from the World Food Program.
53:43 I think you were online before.
53:44 I hope you're still here with us.
53:46 Floor is yours.
53:46 Yeah,
53:47 um,
53:47 can you hear me OK?
53:49 OK.
53:49 Yeah.
53:50 All right.
53:51 No,
53:51 no,
53:52 thank you for having me,
53:52 and I think this is a,
53:54 this is a really,
53:55 um,
53:56 Extremely irrelevant question.
53:57 Um,
53:58 I will,
53:59 um,
54:00 Just to let you know that,
54:02 you know,
54:02 at,
54:02 at the World Food Program,
54:03 I mean,
54:04 we are,
54:04 we are working um quite seriously on this,
54:07 this,
54:08 this topic.
54:09 And,
54:10 um,
54:10 and I can say that most of our research uh
54:13 is applied research.
54:16 Um,
54:17 Obviously,
54:19 there's a lot more happening in this field,
54:22 uh,
54:22 both on the conflict side,
54:24 but also on the climate side.
54:26 Um,
54:27 and,
54:28 and,
54:28 uh,
54:28 and we are,
54:29 we are,
54:30 we are doing our own work,
54:31 but also we're learning from our partners,
54:33 uh,
54:33 many of them who are,
54:35 who are here.
54:36 Um,
54:37 in terms of the impact,
54:39 I'll just take you to the,
54:40 the,
54:41 the,
54:42 the first presentation even today on,
54:45 on,
54:45 on what happened in Syria.
54:47 And,
54:48 um,
54:49 and,
54:49 uh,
54:50 basically,
54:51 we,
54:51 we have also analyzed this and I remember youNHCR and World Bank studies,
54:55 uh,
54:55 um,
54:56 they were extremely helpful as well.
54:58 And
54:59 I think that was one example where
55:02 um
55:03 it had a huge
55:05 impact.
55:06 On,
55:07 uh,
55:08 on not only on operations,
55:10 but also on
55:12 refugee policy
55:14 or dealing with refugees
55:16 in Europe.
55:18 And our,
55:18 our,
55:19 our premise of that,
55:20 that discussion was that,
55:22 look,
55:22 I mean,
55:23 first and foremost,
55:24 um,
55:25 it is a myth that
55:27 everybody
55:29 wants to leave their homes and go to,
55:31 to,
55:32 to,
55:32 to Europe or to uh
55:35 North America,
55:37 uh,
55:38 because if that was the case,
55:39 then you wouldn't have a situation where the
55:41 migrant population of the world is only 3.5%.
55:45 Which is like what,
55:46 300 million people
55:47 out of 48 billion.
55:49 And if you even look into our own families,
55:51 I mean,
55:52 we see that,
55:52 you know,
55:53 not many people like to leave their homes.
55:55 It's no different for anybody else.
55:58 And in the Syrian case,
55:59 what we did was we said,
56:00 look,
56:00 I mean,
56:01 if the war started in 2011,
56:03 why did people have to wait
56:05 till 2015 to actually make this big move?
56:09 And we started to analyze
56:11 those reasons why,
56:13 you know,
56:14 one,
56:14 why people moved from Syria to in the neighborhood,
56:17 meaning to,
56:18 to Lebanon and Jordan and Turkey and Egypt and Iraq,
56:23 but also what changed in those places for them
56:26 to take these risks to actually move to Europe.
56:30 And we were able to essentially show
56:32 that,
56:33 uh,
56:34 you know,
56:35 in 1112,
56:36 when you went there,
56:37 these refugees were considered,
56:39 uh,
56:39 they were welcomed.
56:41 4 or 5 years down the road,
56:43 it was a burden.
56:43 It was a social burden.
56:44 It was a burden on the health sector,
56:46 on the education sector,
56:47 on the subsidy sector.
56:48 I mean,
56:49 you name it,
56:49 and it was a burden.
56:51 And at the same time,
56:52 what we started to see was that the,
56:55 the,
56:55 the
56:56 uh
56:57 cuts,
56:58 uh,
56:58 cuts in humanitarian assistance were coming.
57:01 Not only for,
57:03 from,
57:03 from World Food Program,
57:04 but also from all other partners including HCR.
57:07 This is early 2015.
57:09 So,
57:09 in a way,
57:10 people were
57:11 at the stage where it was like a decision time,
57:14 either,
57:14 like,
57:15 like,
57:15 let's say if you have $100
57:17 do I send,
57:18 stay here and spend that,
57:19 or do I take a risk
57:21 and,
57:22 and,
57:22 and try to get to Europe?
57:23 I mean,
57:24 I'm simplifying,
57:24 but that's,
57:25 that's really,
57:26 that,
57:27 that was really the,
57:28 the,
57:28 the essence.
57:30 And obviously,
57:32 many,
57:32 many people took the choice of,
57:34 or made the choice of going to,
57:37 to Europe.
57:38 But here's the kicker.
57:43 We now,
57:44 uh,
57:45 back in 2022,
57:46 look back,
57:48 and we saw how much,
57:49 what was the amount of money which
57:52 Only Germany,
57:54 federal government had spent on these 1 million refugees.
57:58 And that came out to about $125 billion
58:03 over five years.
58:06 That was
58:07 essentially 70 times more,
58:10 7070 times more.
58:13 What would have needed,
58:14 what was needed to provide the same benefit,
58:18 let's say in Lebanon or in Jordan,
58:21 right?
58:21 And I'm just talking money,
58:23 not politics,
58:24 not the,
58:25 you know,
58:26 um,
58:27 the,
58:28 you know,
58:29 I'm not even touching or,
58:30 or going into that space.
58:32 So very clearly,
58:34 when we started to make these points.
58:38 The governments started to look at this problem a little bit differently.
58:43 And the example of that,
58:45 OK,
58:45 for Syria,
58:46 OK,
58:46 too,
58:47 too late,
58:48 too little.
58:50 But in the Sahel,
58:52 we started to see programs
58:54 which were more towards building people's resilience.
58:58 So that they don't do the same thing.
59:02 Meaning getting out,
59:03 moving out of uh uh out through,
59:05 through,
59:05 through Sahara to Libya,
59:07 and then into Europe.
59:09 So,
59:10 all this not to say that,
59:11 you know,
59:12 uh,
59:12 migration is bad,
59:14 but all this to say that migration out of destitution is really bad.
59:19 And when we don't solve these problems in time where they happen,
59:25 later,
59:26 we spend millions and millions of dollars more to solve these problems,
59:30 which
59:31 don't help the,
59:32 the governments which are,
59:33 which had to spend that,
59:34 but doesn't also help
59:36 the people because in the,
59:37 they did not want to move in the very first place.
59:41 So this is for me,
59:42 one of the examples which I've used quite a bit
59:45 on the effectiveness of research.
59:48 But the same story applies to Central America
59:51 in the US.
59:52 Same story is playing out right now with Haiti in the US.
59:56 So,
59:56 it is not one isolated
59:58 issue.
59:59 Uh,
1:00:00 and it is,
1:00:01 it has happened,
1:00:02 it continues to happen,
1:00:03 and this is why the need to reinforce these messages
1:00:07 and start talking about not only the cost of action,
1:00:10 but also the cost of inaction,
1:00:13 uh,
1:00:14 both to the people who are suffering,
1:00:16 but also
1:00:17 the people who are supposed to take care of that.
1:00:22 Excellent.
1:00:22 Thanks a lot.
1:00:23 Thanks a lot,
1:00:23 and I think some of your points also uh may come back in the,
1:00:26 in the next questions.
1:00:28 Uh,
1:00:28 turning now to,
1:00:29 uh,
1:00:29 Mr.
1:00:30 Paul uh uh Spiegel,
1:00:31 uh,
1:00:32 the director of the Center for Humanitarian
1:00:34 Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg Public School,
1:00:37 uh,
1:00:38 Public School of Public Health,
1:00:40 School of Public Health,
1:00:40 sorry.
1:00:41 Um,
1:00:42 Paul,
1:00:43 you are
1:00:44 on the line
1:00:45 and if you can,
1:00:46 uh,
1:00:47 again give us your,
1:00:48 uh,
1:00:48 Your perspective on the 1st,
1:00:50 1st set of questions,
1:00:51 maybe building on Mr.
1:00:52 Hussain's points as well.
1:00:55 Sure,
1:00:55 thank you.
1:00:56 Um,
1:00:56 it's a pleasure to see everyone and um incredible
1:00:59 to see what's been done on this program,
1:01:01 uh,
1:01:02 funded by UK
1:01:03 UK Action.
1:01:04 So congratulations to all.
1:01:06 I'll give just
1:01:07 two different,
1:01:08 very different examples,
1:01:09 and,
1:01:10 um,
1:01:10 but I'll I'll keep them brief because of time.
1:01:12 The first one is
1:01:14 research can be defined very,
1:01:15 very broadly.
1:01:16 So one is,
1:01:17 is,
1:01:18 was very time sensitive,
1:01:19 and this was,
1:01:20 uh,
1:01:20 the battle for Mosul.
1:01:22 Where
1:01:23 at the time the World Health Organization was
1:01:26 doing things differently in order to save lives.
1:01:29 They started embedding some equivalent of paramedics
1:01:32 with the Iraqi military,
1:01:34 and this caused understandably a lot of
1:01:36 consternation with amongst various groups,
1:01:38 ICRC,
1:01:39 MSF,
1:01:40 amongst others.
1:01:41 So we were asked to actually go there ASAP and
1:01:45 try to evaluate the situation to better understand humanitarian principles,
1:01:51 but also try to gauge the amount of lives saved through this,
1:01:55 through embedding,
1:01:56 if you will,
1:01:57 healthcare workers
1:01:58 with the Iraqi forces
1:02:01 at the front line,
1:02:01 how many civilian lives were saved.
1:02:04 And I won't go through too many details.
1:02:06 It was very,
1:02:06 it was very complex,
1:02:07 but it,
1:02:09 it,
1:02:09 we ended up due to that research,
1:02:12 the World Health Organization developed a different
1:02:15 manual for emergency medical teams called the Red Book
1:02:18 that took into account humanitarian principles
1:02:22 and had very large effects for the future of how this may or may not be done.
1:02:26 And why I think this was important and people
1:02:30 acted very quickly
1:02:32 was primarily because numerous organizations spoke out.
1:02:35 They were very,
1:02:35 very concerned at a very high level
1:02:37 and therefore action was required,
1:02:39 which is one of the certainly the lessons learned is
1:02:42 the acuity of a problem and the importance,
1:02:44 particularly at high levels.
1:02:47 And the second example I'll give is more recent with,
1:02:50 uh,
1:02:51 we did a large study on trying to understand the HIV and syphilis study,
1:02:55 the syphilis prevalence amongst
1:02:57 Venezuelans in,
1:02:59 in Colombia.
1:03:01 This was much more technical.
1:03:02 It took much,
1:03:03 a lot,
1:03:03 much longer,
1:03:05 so the results were not as
1:03:07 quick as we would have liked.
1:03:08 Um,
1:03:09 but on the other hand,
1:03:10 what the results were so important because we saw,
1:03:13 we saw both the prevalence of HIV,
1:03:15 which was significant but not that different from the Colombians,
1:03:19 which was very important.
1:03:20 But secondly,
1:03:21 there was a big difference between those that were.
1:03:24 Had a documented status within Venezuela and those
1:03:26 that within Colombia and those that did not,
1:03:29 and this led to
1:03:31 almost immediately
1:03:32 meetings with the Ministry of Health and others in Colombia
1:03:36 and policies have been changed accordingly.
1:03:40 I'll stop there just because of time.
1:03:41 Thank you.
1:03:43 Great,
1:03:43 thanks a lot.
1:03:44 Thanks for keep repeating short and,
1:03:45 uh,
1:03:46 and very,
1:03:47 uh,
1:03:47 very practical.
1:03:48 Um,
1:03:49 turning to,
1:03:49 to you,
1:03:50 Betsy,
1:03:50 uh,
1:03:51 I'm not going to reintroduce you for the third time.
1:03:53 I'm sorry you all have to hear me twice.
1:03:55 I'm,
1:03:55 I'm replacing my director who was supposed to be on the panel.
1:03:58 Uh,
1:03:59 so Oscar stole a little bit of my thunder because
1:04:01 one of my points was gonna be on Brazil,
1:04:04 but one of the,
1:04:04 the key facts that we took away from Brazil that we use is that.
1:04:08 What the government spent on integrating refugees there
1:04:11 is equal to
1:04:12 what they pay back in taxes currently,
1:04:14 and as they move up the job ladder,
1:04:16 obviously they'll be paying more in taxes than the government spends.
1:04:19 And that's,
1:04:19 that's a really big takeaway from us.
1:04:21 Um,
1:04:21 a couple other studies that were done in Kenya a couple of years ago,
1:04:24 a study called Yes in My Backyard
1:04:27 in the Turkana region
1:04:29 that shows that if refugees were given greater opportunities and freedoms,
1:04:33 as Paulo mentioned.
1:04:34 The GDP in that region would go up by 6%,
1:04:37 and that really influenced the governor in Turkana
1:04:40 to look at
1:04:41 refugees there in terms of more of a settlement approach than,
1:04:45 you know,
1:04:45 keeping refugees separate and,
1:04:47 and that has been huge,
1:04:48 and now,
1:04:49 Uh,
1:04:49 the policy in Kenya
1:04:51 has changed significantly,
1:04:53 and we're working with Kenya on something called,
1:04:55 um,
1:04:56 the Marshall Plan
1:04:57 to look at creating settlements with refugees and host communities,
1:05:00 and that's enormous for us.
1:05:02 Another study,
1:05:03 uh,
1:05:04 and Paulo mentioned this,
1:05:05 uh,
1:05:06 on
1:05:06 macrodata,
1:05:08 the IMF has just done,
1:05:09 done a study on Venezuelans,
1:05:10 and in Ecuador it just happens to be the same.
1:05:12 GDP would go up by 6%.
1:05:14 So these are very useful pieces of data when we
1:05:18 Uh,
1:05:18 speak with government in terms of,
1:05:20 you know,
1:05:21 having a,
1:05:21 a more informed discussion.
1:05:23 Finally,
1:05:23 another study that was done by the World Bank in Colombia
1:05:26 looking at the socioeconomic impact of Colombians that really led,
1:05:30 I think,
1:05:31 to the,
1:05:31 the government there
1:05:33 granting temporary protected status to the Colombian,
1:05:36 to the Venezuelans in Colombia,
1:05:38 allowing them access to the labor.
1:05:40 Market and to health services,
1:05:41 etc.
1:05:42 So those are
1:05:43 for me those are very huge policy
1:05:45 and programmatic impacts.
1:05:47 Thanks.
1:05:47 Thanks,
1:05:48 thanks a lot.
1:05:49 Uh,
1:05:49 11 thing I see on the chat,
1:05:51 uh,
1:05:52 questions that are coming,
1:05:54 great if you can identify yourself any type of question,
1:05:57 uh,
1:05:58 so that we know,
1:05:59 uh,
1:05:59 who is,
1:06:00 who is,
1:06:00 uh,
1:06:01 trying to intervene.
1:06:02 Um,
1:06:03 so now turning to you,
1:06:04 Mr.
1:06:04 uh Nazim Ayadat,
1:06:06 uh,
1:06:06 global advisor,
1:06:07 uh,
1:06:08 on internal displacement at ICRC,
1:06:10 uh,
1:06:10 for your take on this,
1:06:11 uh,
1:06:11 on this question.
1:06:14 Thank you very much.
1:06:15 Um,
1:06:16 so thanks for having me and uh indeed impressive program.
1:06:20 Congrats for,
1:06:21 for that.
1:06:22 I have in mind,
1:06:23 uh,
1:06:23 a few examples.
1:06:24 I'll,
1:06:24 I'll focus on uh the study that we made,
1:06:28 um,
1:06:29 on urban displacement,
1:06:31 which
1:06:32 actually
1:06:33 really helped us.
1:06:35 Uh,
1:06:37 Multidisciplinarily address some of the,
1:06:41 some of the
1:06:43 Big issues uh when it comes to urban displacement.
1:06:46 So,
1:06:46 indeed,
1:06:47 the increased volume of,
1:06:48 of research has helped us to,
1:06:50 to drive the adoption of an evidence-based
1:06:52 approach to internal displacement in our operations.
1:06:55 Um,
1:06:56 taking that very example,
1:06:58 uh,
1:06:58 it's true that it was not always easy to,
1:07:01 to sort of exit our comfort zone,
1:07:03 uh,
1:07:04 question program design,
1:07:05 uh,
1:07:06 what's your added value as a humanitarian organization.
1:07:09 And I believe the role of research in this aspect is,
1:07:11 is really absolutely fundamental and,
1:07:13 and help you ask yourself,
1:07:15 uh,
1:07:15 tough questions.
1:07:17 Um,
1:07:18 so it has
1:07:20 definitely,
1:07:21 uh,
1:07:22 closed some gaps in understanding.
1:07:24 Uh,
1:07:24 so it's a research,
1:07:25 uh,
1:07:26 from 2018,
1:07:27 uh,
1:07:28 that basically
1:07:30 Took place in Somalia,
1:07:32 Nigeria,
1:07:33 Iraq,
1:07:33 and Honduras.
1:07:35 So this the displaced in city report,
1:07:37 the public one,
1:07:39 importantly as well,
1:07:40 the internal one,
1:07:42 informed a lot of our operational managers.
1:07:45 Um,
1:07:46 and it has indeed refocused the organization's efforts for displaced and
1:07:51 host community and is now also part of our training packages.
1:07:55 Um,
1:07:56 another example I can think of is the,
1:07:59 the roots of Restraint,
1:08:00 uh,
1:08:01 study,
1:08:02 which was led by,
1:08:03 uh,
1:08:03 my colleague,
1:08:04 uh,
1:08:04 Fiona Terry,
1:08:06 um,
1:08:07 very important one in which we,
1:08:09 uh,
1:08:10 investigated the,
1:08:11 um,
1:08:12 the,
1:08:12 the
1:08:13 How formal and informal norms
1:08:16 condition the behavior of soldiers and fighters,
1:08:19 um,
1:08:20 depending on the kind of armed organization to which they belong.
1:08:23 So ultimately,
1:08:23 it provided,
1:08:24 it provides a framework of analysis
1:08:27 to help identify the,
1:08:29 the best approaches.
1:08:31 Um,
1:08:31 so this was particularly useful to recalibrate,
1:08:35 adjust our approaches and engagement with military forces and armed groups.
1:08:39 Uh,
1:08:39 and turning progressively,
1:08:41 uh,
1:08:41 those findings,
1:08:42 uh,
1:08:43 into,
1:08:43 into,
1:08:44 into practice.
1:08:45 Um,
1:08:46 I think we also gained,
1:08:47 I mean,
1:08:47 there,
1:08:48 there was a quantic jump,
1:08:50 if I compare my,
1:08:51 my,
1:08:51 my first assignments in,
1:08:52 in eastern Chad back in 2008 and the last one in Afghanistan,
1:08:57 in 2021.
1:08:59 Um,
1:09:00 we gained also more confidence,
1:09:01 I,
1:09:02 I believe in engaging,
1:09:03 uh,
1:09:04 responsible authorities,
1:09:06 including,
1:09:06 of course,
1:09:06 municipal,
1:09:07 local governments,
1:09:09 and,
1:09:09 and here,
1:09:10 Um,
1:09:11 I,
1:09:11 I think an important point is,
1:09:14 is really how much,
1:09:15 uh,
1:09:16 embedded we were also,
1:09:19 uh,
1:09:19 within,
1:09:19 uh,
1:09:19 displaced community
1:09:21 to
1:09:22 feed,
1:09:23 uh,
1:09:23 that dialogue with,
1:09:24 uh,
1:09:24 with responsible authorities.
1:09:27 So indeed,
1:09:28 um,
1:09:30 we are more capable,
1:09:32 even though there is still a lot to do,
1:09:36 um,
1:09:36 but I believe
1:09:38 Uh,
1:09:38 the experience as well of,
1:09:40 of displaced people is key in,
1:09:42 in,
1:09:42 in developing some programs and,
1:09:44 and,
1:09:45 and for that,
1:09:47 I believe research has also helped keeping uh a people-centric uh
1:09:54 organization.
1:09:55 Over to you.
1:09:57 Thanks.
1:09:57 I think it's a very interesting point that,
1:09:59 uh,
1:10:00 that
1:10:01 I think has been raised also in some questions
1:10:03 that we've received in advance and maybe on the,
1:10:05 on the chat as well.
1:10:06 So uh these people centered,
1:10:07 uh,
1:10:08 uh,
1:10:08 motion and how the,
1:10:09 the research can help is,
1:10:10 uh,
1:10:10 is,
1:10:11 is interesting.
1:10:12 Um,
1:10:12 we are
1:10:14 A bit late,
1:10:14 so what I would suggest to the,
1:10:16 the organizers is,
1:10:17 uh,
1:10:18 maybe we,
1:10:19 we put together the last two questions which are basically about constraints,
1:10:23 uh,
1:10:23 and the way forward.
1:10:25 Uh,
1:10:25 and so I will read them and I will ask again our panelists to,
1:10:30 uh,
1:10:30 Give their perspective on those two questions together
1:10:33 or maybe you would prefer to address one
1:10:35 or the other.
1:10:36 So,
1:10:36 uh,
1:10:37 the second question we had was,
1:10:39 uh,
1:10:40 around what are the current constraints
1:10:42 uh in making research relevant uh for policymakers,
1:10:46 programs,
1:10:47 uh,
1:10:47 and project administrators,
1:10:49 so.
1:10:50 How is it,
1:10:50 uh,
1:10:50 uh,
1:10:51 uh,
1:10:51 for,
1:10:51 for,
1:10:52 for those that are doing
1:10:53 implementing programs on the ground
1:10:54 and how,
1:10:55 how can we increase the programmatic relevance
1:10:57 of research operations kind of the interface between research and,
1:11:00 and practice.
1:11:02 Um,
1:11:02 and the last one
1:11:03 is about looking forward,
1:11:05 um,
1:11:06 what are your priorities,
1:11:07 each of you,
1:11:08 in terms of research,
1:11:09 uh,
1:11:09 for making research relevant for operations,
1:11:12 uh,
1:11:12 and can you provide concrete examples of reforms,
1:11:15 uh,
1:11:16 you would support to address,
1:11:17 uh,
1:11:18 those priorities?
1:11:19 Um,
1:11:19 so again,
1:11:20 uh,
1:11:21 feel free to address,
1:11:22 I mean,
1:11:22 I think they are quite connected,
1:11:23 so,
1:11:24 uh,
1:11:24 uh,
1:11:25 feel free to address,
1:11:25 uh,
1:11:26 one or the other or both
1:11:28 and start again with you,
1:11:29 uh,
1:11:29 Mr.
1:11:30 Arif Hus Hussain.
1:11:33 Over to you.
1:11:33 Thank you,
1:11:34 um.
1:11:35 Look,
1:11:36 I mean,
1:11:36 basically,
1:11:37 what um
1:11:40 Even today,
1:11:41 we are,
1:11:42 you know,
1:11:42 there is,
1:11:43 I don't think there is any shortage of research.
1:11:45 I don't think there is any shortage of
1:11:48 understanding the,
1:11:49 the problem statement.
1:11:51 I also don't think
1:11:52 that it is,
1:11:53 uh,
1:11:54 through the research,
1:11:55 it is an issue of,
1:11:56 you know,
1:11:57 convincing people that,
1:11:58 you know,
1:11:58 uh,
1:11:59 the,
1:11:59 the benefits of,
1:12:02 of,
1:12:02 uh,
1:12:03 of assisting uh refugees.
1:12:06 Uh,
1:12:07 But when you start to,
1:12:08 where we are going is that when you start to look at
1:12:12 the people you need to convince,
1:12:13 uh,
1:12:14 whether it is operational people,
1:12:16 whether it's policy
1:12:17 makers.
1:12:19 Um,
1:12:19 they also understand,
1:12:21 one,
1:12:21 we have to make sure that they understand what are the benefits,
1:12:24 right?
1:12:25 But the second thing is
1:12:28 They uh have
1:12:29 to,
1:12:30 for the research to understand their constraints.
1:12:33 Meaning you can say that,
1:12:34 look,
1:12:34 I mean,
1:12:35 you know,
1:12:35 yes,
1:12:36 it will,
1:12:36 uh,
1:12:37 for a particular community,
1:12:39 or,
1:12:39 or for a particular region,
1:12:40 it will increase GDP by 10%.
1:12:43 Uh,
1:12:46 But
1:12:47 that will require
1:12:48 investments.
1:12:50 And if the decision makers,
1:12:51 policy
1:12:53 makers don't have those investments,
1:12:55 that is not going to happen.
1:12:57 So,
1:12:57 in
1:12:58 our own research,
1:13:00 in dissemination of that research,
1:13:03 if we can talk about the benefits,
1:13:05 if we can talk about the costs of not doing it,
1:13:08 but also if we can give suggestions in terms of how it could be funded,
1:13:12 which would be acceptable to the decision makers.
1:13:16 Or would be viable for the decision makers,
1:13:19 there is a chance that that would happen.
1:13:21 Otherwise,
1:13:22 we get into a situation where,
1:13:24 you know,
1:13:24 it is one of the things,
1:13:25 yeah,
1:13:25 it's nice to have,
1:13:26 to do.
1:13:28 But it's not going to happen because I simply don't have the resources.
1:13:31 I think our research has to start moving more into the applied space.
1:13:38 Not only from the side of understanding the problem,
1:13:41 but also understanding how that problem can be resolved.
1:13:45 Within the means and resources
1:13:48 of the people
1:13:49 who are supposed to do that.
1:13:52 That's,
1:13:52 that's where
1:13:54 I think we are lacking and we need to sort of
1:13:56 get better.
1:13:57 I'll stop here.
1:13:58 Thank you.
1:13:59 Thanks,
1:14:00 thanks a lot.
1:14:01 Very interesting.
1:14:02 Um,
1:14:03 Paul.
1:14:06 Your turn,
1:14:07 uh,
1:14:07 on those two questions.
1:14:08 Thank you,
1:14:09 um.
1:14:10 Constraints are,
1:14:12 the constraints are enormous,
1:14:13 I would say,
1:14:14 and it,
1:14:14 it,
1:14:14 it's a mixture if I divide them into two sides.
1:14:17 One,
1:14:17 the researchers
1:14:20 themselves
1:14:20 who um
1:14:23 Many have not actually been in the operations,
1:14:26 have managed or responded to operations,
1:14:29 and so sometimes the research can be very strong,
1:14:32 but then the recommendations and or the context is insufficient.
1:14:36 I think that's easily addressed if
1:14:40 if the researchers are working with organizations and we
1:14:43 make sure that the organizations that we're working with
1:14:46 are very involved in in both at least
1:14:50 contextualizing the analysis and then the recommendations.
1:14:55 The converse though is that what we find is
1:14:58 that those that are in operations are so busy,
1:15:01 particularly in the last while where there's just crisis after crisis,
1:15:05 it can be very,
1:15:06 very difficult for researchers to get the actual
1:15:08 time needed to be able to better understand
1:15:12 the results themselves.
1:15:13 And so there has to be a bit of give and take,
1:15:16 I would say,
1:15:16 on both sides.
1:15:18 Another big problem I would say is
1:15:21 there is so much research and there are so many recommendations coming out
1:15:26 that it's very difficult for
1:15:28 organizations,
1:15:29 NGOs,
1:15:30 UN,
1:15:30 and others to be able to prioritize.
1:15:32 And so I think there needs to be
1:15:34 a more concerted effort to better understand what's out there,
1:15:37 to better prioritize,
1:15:38 because it's
1:15:39 probably not possible to operationalize everything that's coming out.
1:15:43 So there should be a methodology to be able to do that.
1:15:46 Um,
1:15:47 I think that would be extremely helpful.
1:15:49 And then finally for the future.
1:15:53 There is a lot of research going out there but coming out,
1:15:56 but the quality can really,
1:15:58 really vary of that research.
1:16:00 And so I think there should be more,
1:16:02 and this is self-serving coming from a university,
1:16:04 of course,
1:16:05 but more dedicated funding streams for quality research
1:16:09 and also longer term research in these humanitarian settings,
1:16:13 we're often getting
1:16:14 funding for a year to do research,
1:16:16 which makes it extremely
1:16:17 difficult.
1:16:19 I think we need to do more qualitative and quantitative and longer term.
1:16:23 Um,
1:16:24 sometimes their qualitative is hugely important,
1:16:26 but it's often easier
1:16:28 to do in certain settings and or there just is enough,
1:16:31 not enough baseline quantitative to actually,
1:16:34 uh,
1:16:34 move forward and then try to.
1:16:37 the research.
1:16:38 Another area,
1:16:39 perhaps I'll last two areas,
1:16:41 one would be to really try to focus on access in some of the more insecure areas.
1:16:46 That makes it doubly difficult because the methodologies and undertaking
1:16:50 more stringent methodologies can be more difficult,
1:16:53 and generally there are fewer people allowed to go into
1:16:56 these areas and of course operations will supersede research.
1:16:59 And then finally,
1:17:00 the donors,
1:17:01 um,
1:17:02 what we find often is that there is still a lack of
1:17:06 at a minimum monitoring and evaluation and at
1:17:09 the best case scenario some component within the
1:17:13 the donors for operations
1:17:15 to better understand by having some research and lessons
1:17:18 learned and if that could be more systematically prioritized,
1:17:21 I think we can do,
1:17:22 we can do a lot.
1:17:24 Thank you.
1:17:25 Thanks,
1:17:25 thanks a lot.
1:17:26 Uh,
1:17:26 got a few,
1:17:27 uh,
1:17:27 very interesting proposals and,
1:17:29 uh,
1:17:29 I'm going to,
1:17:30 to keep with,
1:17:31 uh,
1:17:31 take with me at least the,
1:17:33 the multi-year funding for research as well,
1:17:35 and it's been an argument
1:17:37 in
1:17:37 the,
1:17:37 in my time sector for,
1:17:38 for some time,
1:17:39 um,
1:17:40 and,
1:17:40 uh,
1:17:40 and what you said also made me think about the,
1:17:42 the,
1:17:43 what I've seen as a more and more,
1:17:44 uh,
1:17:45 long,
1:17:45 longitudinal studies,
1:17:47 uh,
1:17:47 which I think is,
1:17:48 is really something that,
1:17:49 uh,
1:17:49 that warrants,
1:17:50 uh,
1:17:50 uh,
1:17:51 a bit more uh
1:17:52 investment.
1:17:53 Uh,
1:17:53 Betsy,
1:17:54 great,
1:17:54 great to come after Arif and Paul because I,
1:17:57 I agree with,
1:17:58 with what they're saying.
1:18:00 Just,
1:18:00 just to note that we do have two longitudinal panel studies,
1:18:04 first time ever in UNHCR
1:18:06 with the World Bank and Gauge and,
1:18:08 and Yale in Bangladesh and the JDC
1:18:10 and in Kenya,
1:18:11 and this is something that we
1:18:14 Exactly for the reason that Paul said.
1:18:17 We know that this is important to have baseline and
1:18:19 to be able to measure over time what's happening,
1:18:21 and,
1:18:22 and this will,
1:18:23 I mean,
1:18:23 these are very large populations,
1:18:26 and I think this will give us really important data
1:18:30 over many years which we haven't been able to have in the past.
1:18:33 So,
1:18:33 I fully agree that,
1:18:35 that we need to do more of these and it's,
1:18:36 it's really valuable.
1:18:38 Um,
1:18:39 I wouldn't say that,
1:18:40 that we have all the research we need.
1:18:41 We know that,
1:18:42 for example,
1:18:42 there are enormous gaps on IDPs.
1:18:45 We have very,
1:18:45 very little data on IDPs.
1:18:47 So,
1:18:47 I think there are some populations that
1:18:49 there's more research on now.
1:18:50 The JDC is helping us on,
1:18:52 on getting more data on IDPs.
1:18:55 Um,
1:18:55 in terms of,
1:18:57 um,
1:18:58 I think one of the other challenges that,
1:19:00 that we see,
1:19:01 and,
1:19:01 and Paul alluded to this in a way,
1:19:04 I don't think that,
1:19:04 for example,
1:19:05 in our own operations that our colleagues are able
1:19:07 to identify what's the problem they want to solve.
1:19:10 And if you don't understand really what the problem is you want to solve,
1:19:12 you don't know what the question is,
1:19:14 you don't know how to pose it as a research question.
1:19:17 And that's a challenge very much in a humanitarian organization
1:19:20 because we're not used to thinking in that way.
1:19:22 So really helping operations formulate the right question,
1:19:26 is it around policy changes in policy that we're looking for?
1:19:29 Is it around
1:19:30 changes in,
1:19:31 in program,
1:19:32 how we use
1:19:33 funding to
1:19:34 You know,
1:19:35 impact a particular program.
1:19:37 And so this,
1:19:37 this has been a real challenge.
1:19:39 Um,
1:19:40 and then I would say one of the other challenges we face
1:19:43 is
1:19:44 even when we actually have the research and it tells you what to do,
1:19:47 and I think Arif was referring to this,
1:19:50 how do you bring the whole
1:19:52 ecosystem of those that
1:19:54 fund,
1:19:55 for example,
1:19:56 education.
1:19:57 To be able to say,
1:19:58 OK,
1:19:58 we're going to take this,
1:19:59 and now we're going to use it,
1:20:00 because there's
1:20:02 political reasons why,
1:20:04 you know,
1:20:05 being very frank,
1:20:05 why somebody has funding to do X,
1:20:07 Y,
1:20:07 or Z.
1:20:08 Are they going to be able to change their approach to programming
1:20:11 in this cycle,
1:20:12 or will they have to wait 3 years?
1:20:13 And I think that's,
1:20:14 that's a really big challenge is to bring them,
1:20:17 you know.
1:20:18 All the agencies around,
1:20:20 um,
1:20:21 you know,
1:20:21 a particular impact,
1:20:23 so I'll stop there.
1:20:23 Thanks,
1:20:24 thanks a Betsy,
1:20:25 and
1:20:25 I,
1:20:26 I
1:20:26 really appreciated the comment on the,
1:20:27 on,
1:20:28 on internal placement.
1:20:29 I think that was one of the recommendation of the,
1:20:31 the high panel,
1:20:32 uh,
1:20:32 uh,
1:20:32 a few years ago.
1:20:34 more should be done
1:20:35 on research,
1:20:36 uh,
1:20:36 uh,
1:20:36 in this,
1:20:37 uh,
1:20:37 in this realm.
1:20:37 So hopefully that's
1:20:39 coming up,
1:20:40 um,
1:20:41 now Nazim for your,
1:20:42 uh,
1:20:43 your last,
1:20:44 uh.
1:20:45 Thank you very much.
1:20:46 So yes,
1:20:47 uh,
1:20:48 I,
1:20:48 I fully agree that uh research is a victim of its success.
1:20:52 And then one constraint or one
1:20:54 challenge uh with the multiplication of,
1:20:57 uh,
1:20:58 of excellent uh research is the,
1:21:00 the absorption capacity and for humanitarians,
1:21:03 time and resources to adequately
1:21:06 and,
1:21:06 and timely infuse those findings,
1:21:08 those research findings into program design.
1:21:11 Uh,
1:21:12 this is particularly true for hard to reach areas,
1:21:15 uh,
1:21:16 and at the onset of,
1:21:17 of active hostilities,
1:21:18 uh,
1:21:18 such as,
1:21:19 uh,
1:21:20 the,
1:21:20 the cases is now in,
1:21:21 in Sudan.
1:21:22 Um.
1:21:24 I also agree with Paul,
1:21:26 uh,
1:21:26 absolutely on,
1:21:27 on the recommendations.
1:21:28 So,
1:21:29 uh,
1:21:29 many researchers very solid,
1:21:31 uh,
1:21:32 lacking a bit of,
1:21:33 of practical,
1:21:34 realistic,
1:21:36 understandable recommendation.
1:21:37 So it doesn't mean that we,
1:21:39 we should not set ambitious goals,
1:21:41 uh,
1:21:42 for research,
1:21:42 but to,
1:21:43 to strike that,
1:21:44 that balance,
1:21:45 um,
1:21:46 maybe the involvement of practitioners along with theoreticians,
1:21:51 uh,
1:21:51 is,
1:21:51 is critical at,
1:21:52 at every stage.
1:21:54 Um,
1:21:55 so policymakers often require timely information to make informed decisions.
1:22:00 Uh,
1:22:00 research findings may take time to gather,
1:22:03 analyze,
1:22:04 publish,
1:22:04 disseminate.
1:22:05 Um,
1:22:06 and this can,
1:22:07 can create a gap,
1:22:08 uh,
1:22:08 between the availability of research and,
1:22:10 and policymaking processes.
1:22:12 And the other side of that coin,
1:22:14 uh,
1:22:14 is naturally that,
1:22:15 uh,
1:22:16 a robust and,
1:22:17 and solid research has its own life cycle,
1:22:19 a maturation process,
1:22:21 review mechanisms.
1:22:22 So there's also a,
1:22:24 a balance to strike there and a,
1:22:25 and a continuous challenge.
1:22:27 Um,
1:22:28 increasing the programmatic relevance,
1:22:30 uh,
1:22:32 Of research for operations.
1:22:34 Uh,
1:22:35 so,
1:22:35 of course,
1:22:36 um,
1:22:38 Research and recommendation must be relevant
1:22:40 to a specific displacement situation.
1:22:42 If I,
1:22:43 if I talk about internal displacement,
1:22:45 uh,
1:22:46 considering all different actors,
1:22:47 parties to the conflict,
1:22:49 resources,
1:22:49 external environment,
1:22:51 um,
1:22:52 this is not to say that,
1:22:53 that all research should be narrow in scope,
1:22:55 uh,
1:22:56 but the more contextualized and focused,
1:22:59 uh,
1:22:59 the more findings influence,
1:23:01 influence infinite,
1:23:02 uh,
1:23:03 quality,
1:23:04 uh,
1:23:04 programming.
1:23:06 Uh,
1:23:06 another point that is linked to the previous one,
1:23:09 research and recommendation need to include,
1:23:12 uh,
1:23:12 and reflect the perspective and voices of,
1:23:15 of people affected by displacement.
1:23:17 Um,
1:23:18 and,
1:23:18 and,
1:23:18 and
1:23:19 I,
1:23:19 I often say that IDPs are not a static,
1:23:23 faceless group.
1:23:24 Uh,
1:23:25 but rather a myriad of resourceful and often very innovative citizens.
1:23:29 Uh,
1:23:30 and I believe by including them at each stage of research,
1:23:33 we are using the,
1:23:34 the right compass.
1:23:35 And this,
1:23:36 I,
1:23:36 I land again on the,
1:23:37 the people-centric approach.
1:23:39 And,
1:23:40 and I'll stop there.
1:23:43 Great.
1:23:43 Thanks.
1:23:44 Thanks a lot.
1:23:45 Uh,
1:23:45 I think there's been,
1:23:46 uh,
1:23:46 quite a,
1:23:47 quite a number of,
1:23:48 uh,
1:23:48 of very interesting suggestions and,
1:23:50 uh,
1:23:50 and,
1:23:50 you know,
1:23:51 this is recorded.
1:23:52 We're taking most of us
1:23:54 not so,
1:23:54 uh,
1:23:54 I think it's going to be,
1:23:55 uh,
1:23:55 inspiring for the,
1:23:57 for the,
1:23:57 the reflections going forward.
1:23:59 And now we,
1:24:00 we are a bit of time,
1:24:01 we're still a bit late,
1:24:02 but we have a bit of time,
1:24:03 we'll make sure,
1:24:04 uh for questions or suggestions,
1:24:07 uh,
1:24:08 on those questions,
1:24:09 reactions also to the,
1:24:10 the,
1:24:10 the initial presentations,
1:24:11 of course.
1:24:12 Um,
1:24:13 so feel free to raise your hand.
1:24:15 I've seen also a few questions on the chat.
1:24:19 Um.
1:24:21 So let's start,
1:24:22 maybe,
1:24:23 is there anyone in the room,
1:24:24 since we've had a lot of interventions
1:24:26 online,
1:24:27 maybe you can
1:24:28 start in the room for once.
1:24:30 To look at
1:24:32 around me if there's a
1:24:33 and no
1:24:36 oh sorry,
1:24:36 so go ahead,
1:24:37 introduce yourself.
1:24:38 Yes,
1:24:38 I'm from the Korean mission.
1:24:41 uh,
1:24:41 and I talked about the Ali to saying about the,
1:24:45 the refugeehia refugee in the,
1:24:48 uh,
1:24:48 Germany.
1:24:50 How,
1:24:51 what is the,
1:24:52 uh,
1:24:53 impact on the social cohesion among,
1:24:55 uh,
1:24:56 German,
1:24:57 uh,
1:24:57 people,
1:24:57 general German people's recognition on the refugees.
1:25:00 And also he said that there is a lot of huge amount of benefits comes from this uh
1:25:06 uh accepting the those Syrian people.
1:25:09 What is,
1:25:10 what
1:25:11 I want to know from what exactly what point of the benefits are occurring
1:25:16 and what cause of this uh benefit.
1:25:20 And also there is,
1:25:21 I heard that there is a huge amount of Syrian refugees in Turkey,
1:25:25 Turkey now.
1:25:26 So probably if
1:25:28 like the size it would be mean a huge amount of people go to inside another society,
1:25:34 it would be the effect on the social cohesion would
1:25:37 be somewhat different from compared to small refugees there.
1:25:41 So I don't know what is the impact on the,
1:25:44 the society impact on
1:25:46 of those people to go there.
1:25:48 And
1:25:49 also probably it would be somewhat different,
1:25:52 would be that
1:25:53 like the Pope Francis,
1:25:54 they received a huge amount of almost 6 million people from their old colonies.
1:26:01 Then
1:26:01 several 10 years or 2 years there's some kind of social
1:26:05 like uh
1:26:06 turmoils.
1:26:07 So
1:26:08 that could make some probably like a
1:26:10 failure to the dealing with the refugee people.
1:26:14 So probably from
1:26:16 those
1:26:17 instances we could do learn lessons
1:26:19 to prevent that kind of thing.
1:26:21 So
1:26:22 those are my questions on this man.
1:26:25 Thank you very much.
1:26:25 I'm not sure whether this is proper for.
1:26:28 Thank you.
1:26:29 Thanks a lot.
1:26:29 Uh,
1:26:30 I,
1:26:30 I think
1:26:31 you directed this question to,
1:26:33 um,
1:26:34 to,
1:26:34 uh,
1:26:36 uh,
1:26:36 our first panelist,
1:26:37 uh,
1:26:37 Mr.
1:26:37 Hussain.
1:26:38 Um,
1:26:39 but I'm sure others also can,
1:26:41 uh,
1:26:41 can,
1:26:42 can bring,
1:26:42 uh,
1:26:43 their,
1:26:43 their part to the answers.
1:26:45 Maybe,
1:26:45 uh,
1:26:45 Mr.
1:26:45 Hussain,
1:26:46 first to you,
1:26:47 and then I'll see if other
1:26:48 panelists or presenters want to,
1:26:50 to,
1:26:50 to add that
1:26:52 to that.
1:26:52 OK.
1:26:53 Uh,
1:26:53 I'm afraid that it was,
1:26:54 uh,
1:26:55 the connection was kind of breaking,
1:26:57 so I,
1:26:57 I got parts of it.
1:26:58 I didn't get the whole,
1:27:00 uh,
1:27:01 whole question.
1:27:02 Um,
1:27:03 so,
1:27:04 so first and foremost,
1:27:06 Um,
1:27:06 basically,
1:27:09 This was,
1:27:09 uh,
1:27:10 this,
1:27:10 this was like,
1:27:11 uh,
1:27:11 the 3rd quarter of 2015 when this movement happened.
1:27:15 Um,
1:27:17 and initially it was,
1:27:18 um,
1:27:19 you know,
1:27:19 um,
1:27:20 Germany welcomed these,
1:27:21 these,
1:27:21 these,
1:27:22 these,
1:27:22 these refugees.
1:27:24 Um,
1:27:24 and
1:27:26 Then when they came there,
1:27:28 there was a lot of stuff which needed to happen.
1:27:30 Uh,
1:27:31 meaning from,
1:27:32 from language issues to cultural issues to religious issues,
1:27:35 to job issues,
1:27:37 all of these things needed to be resolved.
1:27:39 And
1:27:40 for that,
1:27:41 this is why over the course of several years,
1:27:44 assimilation takes a while,
1:27:46 uh,
1:27:48 you know,
1:27:48 literally,
1:27:49 like I said,
1:27:49 $125 billion were spent just by the federal government.
1:27:54 Um
1:27:55 Did it happen?
1:27:56 Does it have economic returns?
1:27:58 Uh,
1:27:59 did people stimulate,
1:28:00 uh,
1:28:00 stimulate?
1:28:01 Yes.
1:28:02 Uh,
1:28:03 but just compare that.
1:28:05 To
1:28:07 spending $125 billion
1:28:10 on 1 million refugees,
1:28:12 to looking at just World Food Program in its record year,
1:28:16 where we assisted 160 million people around the world.
1:28:21 With about $14 billion.
1:28:25 So,
1:28:25 you see the,
1:28:25 the,
1:28:26 the,
1:28:26 the,
1:28:26 the,
1:28:27 the,
1:28:27 the disconnect on,
1:28:28 on,
1:28:29 on that side.
1:28:30 Now,
1:28:30 the problem is that
1:28:32 that's not only the,
1:28:33 the,
1:28:34 the place where this has happened.
1:28:36 If you look at the dry corridor of Central America,
1:28:38 and if you look at uh the western border of the United States,
1:28:43 I think I can think of at least 3 studies
1:28:47 which looked at this displacement of uh people
1:28:51 moving from,
1:28:52 from Central America from the dry corridor to the,
1:28:54 the US.
1:28:56 There was a study done to show
1:28:58 That
1:28:59 the people who were leaving were leaving from the places which were the most
1:29:05 Um,
1:29:06 severely impacted by both food insecurity and poverty.
1:29:11 That part.
1:29:12 Now,
1:29:13 if you look back,
1:29:14 again,
1:29:14 the same reason,
1:29:15 looking back,
1:29:16 if we could have helped those people where they were,
1:29:19 so they did not have to leave,
1:29:21 it would solve two problems.
1:29:23 One,
1:29:24 people are not leaving their home,
1:29:25 which they didn't want to do in the first place.
1:29:27 And second,
1:29:28 where they were going,
1:29:29 it wasn't like,
1:29:30 uh,
1:29:30 you know,
1:29:31 they weren't,
1:29:31 uh.
1:29:33 It was,
1:29:33 it,
1:29:33 it was not a
1:29:35 migration which was accepted because it was
1:29:37 out of,
1:29:38 you know,
1:29:38 out of destitution,
1:29:39 basically.
1:29:40 So,
1:29:40 this is why billions upon billions of dollars were spent
1:29:43 to keep those people up.
1:29:45 So,
1:29:45 my point is that
1:29:47 First and foremost,
1:29:49 our research.
1:29:51 Needs to,
1:29:53 and coming to Betsy's point,
1:29:55 needs to get the wrong right,
1:29:57 meaning
1:29:57 you need to get the problem statement right.
1:30:00 And that problem statement right is not only from the,
1:30:04 the side of the people who are getting affected,
1:30:07 but also the side of people,
1:30:08 again,
1:30:09 who are supposed to help,
1:30:11 or places where they're supposed to go.
1:30:13 And if we can do that,
1:30:15 Then we can solve the correct problem.
1:30:17 If we don't do that,
1:30:19 then yes,
1:30:19 we are solving a problem,
1:30:20 but it's just not the right problem.
1:30:22 And believe me,
1:30:23 this happens more often
1:30:25 than,
1:30:25 uh,
1:30:26 than,
1:30:26 than not.
1:30:28 Uh,
1:30:28 I hope I answered your question.
1:30:30 Um,
1:30:30 thank you.
1:30:32 Thank you,
1:30:32 thank you.
1:30:33 I don't know,
1:30:34 uh,
1:30:34 if
1:30:35 someone wants to address this question as well,
1:30:38 or maybe we turn to
1:30:39 a few other questions.
1:30:42 Just,
1:30:43 just a word on,
1:30:44 uh,
1:30:44 the social cohesion question because this is an area where
1:30:48 I think we have at least 40 studies that looked,
1:30:50 uh,
1:30:51 different dimensions of social cohesion.
1:30:54 And social cohesion as these three dimensions between,
1:30:57 uh,
1:30:57 within the refugee or displaced community,
1:31:01 within the host communities,
1:31:02 and between the two communities.
1:31:04 And I think one of the,
1:31:05 the lessons that we are very comfortable in
1:31:08 channeling
1:31:09 is that um
1:31:11 no matter the size of the displacement crisis,
1:31:15 I think about Lebanon,
1:31:16 20% of the population.
1:31:19 Um,
1:31:20 if
1:31:21 proper policies are in place,
1:31:24 the mitigating effect
1:31:25 of these policies can be very,
1:31:27 very large.
1:31:28 So we have municipalities that received,
1:31:31 uh,
1:31:31 in terms of percentage of,
1:31:34 uh,
1:31:34 refugees over the local populations,
1:31:37 the same amounts in Turkey and Lebanon,
1:31:39 for example.
1:31:41 So the share of refugees in those municipalities were the same.
1:31:45 But we have very different impacts of these refugees on these host communities
1:31:49 because of the policies in place in the two places at the same time.
1:31:54 So we have a sort of natural control experiments that tell us
1:31:58 that if you do have policies in place for freedom of movement,
1:32:03 freedom of work,
1:32:04 and access to,
1:32:05 uh,
1:32:05 services,
1:32:07 the impacts are much shorter term.
1:32:10 They're much more localized
1:32:12 and uh uh they can be,
1:32:14 the negative impact,
1:32:15 impacts can be reabsorbed in a relatively short period of time.
1:32:19 So,
1:32:19 policies matter.
1:32:20 It's not just the size of the crisis,
1:32:22 the matter for social cohesion.
1:32:25 Maybe just another point,
1:32:26 the bank had done a study in Turkey early on
1:32:28 that shows that those Syrians who came to Turkey,
1:32:32 so initially the lower level Turks were displaced from employment,
1:32:37 certain level at the lowest level of employment,
1:32:40 but actually what happened was that they retooled
1:32:43 and they moved up the employment ladder,
1:32:45 so they actually got better jobs than they had before
1:32:48 when the Syrians came in.
1:32:49 So
1:32:50 there,
1:32:50 there's lots of things that that happened.
1:32:53 Thanks,
1:32:54 thanks a lot.
1:32:55 Um,
1:32:55 I hope that answered the,
1:32:57 the question.
1:32:58 Um,
1:32:59 what I'm going to do is read and give you one question from the,
1:33:01 the chart,
1:33:02 and then I think there's uh one hand,
1:33:04 uh,
1:33:05 raised and one here,
1:33:06 uh,
1:33:07 and then we'll probably have to,
1:33:08 to go to the,
1:33:09 the closing,
1:33:10 unfortunately.
1:33:11 There's a lot of very interesting questions in the,
1:33:12 in the chat.
1:33:13 The one I will read was,
1:33:15 was
1:33:15 typed,
1:33:16 uh,
1:33:16 uh,
1:33:17 some time ago,
1:33:18 which is,
1:33:19 um,
1:33:19 which are some of the socioeconomic
1:33:21 repercussions that are associated with displacement.
1:33:24 Uh,
1:33:24 and which are some of the challenges encountered
1:33:26 as the refugees are repatriated back home.
1:33:28 So
1:33:29 a question about the,
1:33:30 uh,
1:33:30 the socioeconomic,
1:33:31 uh,
1:33:32 repercussions,
1:33:33 uh,
1:33:33 and,
1:33:34 and the dynamics with,
1:33:35 uh,
1:33:35 with return.
1:33:37 Um,
1:33:37 the question online,
1:33:40 uh,
1:33:41 is from,
1:33:42 uh,
1:33:43 Laurie Bell,
1:33:43 if I'm not mistaken,
1:33:44 I don't see the,
1:33:45 the hand
1:33:46 up anymore,
1:33:47 but Laurie,
1:33:48 head of evaluation Service at UNHCR wanted to ask a question.
1:33:54 If not,
1:33:58 If not,
1:33:59 I will turn to,
1:34:00 to you for the question,
1:34:00 uh,
1:34:01 uh,
1:34:01 here in the room.
1:34:02 Sure,
1:34:03 thank you very much.
1:34:04 My name is Maya Lazic.
1:34:05 I'm the deputy head of the World Bank
1:34:07 UNHCR Joint Data Center on Forced Displacement,
1:34:09 and
1:34:10 of course this conversation today,
1:34:11 needless to say,
1:34:12 resonates hugely with us and then we're very pleased to be,
1:34:16 to be working together,
1:34:17 all of us,
1:34:18 uh,
1:34:18 um,
1:34:19 uh,
1:34:19 here discussing today,
1:34:21 um,
1:34:22 across the,
1:34:22 the different,
1:34:23 uh,
1:34:24 elements of the partnership between World Bank and UNHHCS,
1:34:26 yeah.
1:34:27 And
1:34:28 what I want to,
1:34:29 it's really a comment,
1:34:30 it's not a question,
1:34:31 and,
1:34:31 and it's a comment that's spurred by what,
1:34:33 what we just heard in this uh uh last round of,
1:34:36 of,
1:34:36 uh,
1:34:37 Of,
1:34:37 uh,
1:34:38 of responses to constraints and,
1:34:40 and to,
1:34:41 to the way forward because what I heard particularly from,
1:34:44 from the colleague Nazim from ICRC and,
1:34:46 and also from Paul,
1:34:47 but from all of you really,
1:34:49 uh,
1:34:49 resonates so extremely well with the,
1:34:52 with where we are right now in,
1:34:53 in our work progress and where we're going to in the next 4 years.
1:34:58 The Joint Data Center has been
1:34:59 in,
1:35:00 in working for,
1:35:02 for 4 years really looking at sort of the infrastructure of data,
1:35:06 uh,
1:35:06 stimulating data production with operational relevance,
1:35:10 uh,
1:35:10 um,
1:35:11 and,
1:35:11 uh,
1:35:12 and also trying to,
1:35:13 to push out data and evidence,
1:35:15 uh,
1:35:15 um,
1:35:16 uh,
1:35:18 as part,
1:35:18 as part of that first strategy
1:35:20 and now we're,
1:35:21 we're taking learners.
1:35:22 And,
1:35:23 and we're looking towards the next 4 years
1:35:25 where it's absolutely clear that everything that you say is,
1:35:29 uh,
1:35:29 is,
1:35:29 uh,
1:35:30 is evidently something that needs a concerted effort
1:35:33 in partnership with others but also
1:35:36 uh really stimulating,
1:35:37 um,
1:35:38 and in that sense,
1:35:39 we,
1:35:39 we are,
1:35:40 we have been developing a,
1:35:41 a knowledge agenda we call it in,
1:35:43 in,
1:35:43 in the Jordan Data Center.
1:35:45 Uh,
1:35:45 where we particularly look at some of those elements that were highlighted,
1:35:49 uh,
1:35:49 um,
1:35:50 in the responses
1:35:51 in terms of,
1:35:52 uh,
1:35:53 getting research relevant for practitioners,
1:35:56 getting practitioners
1:35:57 involved in,
1:35:58 in the research so that it can be applied,
1:36:00 gapping some of,
1:36:01 uh,
1:36:02 pardon me,
1:36:03 identifying some of those data and evidence gaps to make that connection
1:36:07 and,
1:36:08 um.
1:36:09 And then having effective and diverse ways of
1:36:12 disseminating that of serving it up to the,
1:36:14 to the uh policymakers and practitioners,
1:36:17 uh,
1:36:17 who need this,
1:36:18 and I think,
1:36:19 uh,
1:36:20 it was,
1:36:20 it was really wonderful to hear your responses because it goes right into,
1:36:24 to,
1:36:24 to,
1:36:25 to the strategy conversations that we will have and consult on more widely.
1:36:29 So thank you very much.
1:36:30 Excellent,
1:36:31 really having an impact.
1:36:34 Thanks,
1:36:34 thanks a lot for the,
1:36:35 for the,
1:36:36 the comments then,
1:36:37 uh,
1:36:37 not the question.
1:36:38 I don't know if anyone would want to,
1:36:40 uh,
1:36:40 address the question about the returns.
1:36:43 You,
1:36:43 Paula,
1:36:43 you wanted to,
1:36:45 yeah,
1:36:45 if I understood it was a two-part question or um in general socioeconomic,
1:36:49 uh,
1:36:49 um,
1:36:50 characteristics,
1:36:51 challenges of this place,
1:36:52 and then,
1:36:52 uh,
1:36:52 the connection to the return,
1:36:54 right?
1:36:55 Um,
1:36:55 yeah,
1:36:56 so,
1:36:56 um.
1:36:58 Um,
1:36:59 yeah,
1:36:59 we have a paper actually in the program that looks at,
1:37:01 uh,
1:37:02 um,
1:37:03 what are the challenges of,
1:37:04 uh,
1:37:05 that specifically displaced people face,
1:37:07 um,
1:37:07 um,
1:37:08 if we look at them and compare them with economic migrants,
1:37:11 for instance.
1:37:12 So,
1:37:12 um,
1:37:14 key,
1:37:14 key findings from the study
1:37:16 are the,
1:37:17 um,
1:37:18 challenges in terms of the assets,
1:37:20 assets or possessions,
1:37:21 and dispossession that happened during displacement.
1:37:23 Um,
1:37:24 arrival,
1:37:24 um,
1:37:25 to,
1:37:26 um,
1:37:27 a new context with the,
1:37:28 all the,
1:37:28 uh,
1:37:29 mental health,
1:37:29 um,
1:37:30 consequences of,
1:37:31 uh,
1:37:32 having been displaced and of course facing
1:37:34 Uh,
1:37:35 lack of rights,
1:37:35 uh,
1:37:36 such as the right to,
1:37:37 uh,
1:37:38 that was mentioned a lot,
1:37:38 the right to work,
1:37:39 the right,
1:37:39 uh,
1:37:39 the right to move.
1:37:41 Uh,
1:37:41 so a lot of,
1:37:42 um,
1:37:42 um,
1:37:43 very many different aspects that are specific to the displacement experience.
1:37:46 On the return,
1:37:47 uh,
1:37:48 specifically,
1:37:49 I think,
1:37:49 uh,
1:37:50 this is another area actually where that deserves,
1:37:52 uh,
1:37:53 further,
1:37:53 uh,
1:37:53 further research hasn't been,
1:37:55 uh,
1:37:55 as,
1:37:55 uh,
1:37:56 as prominent.
1:37:57 Um,
1:37:57 however,
1:37:58 um,
1:38:00 I can think back,
1:38:01 back about one of the impact evaluations that I actually,
1:38:03 uh,
1:38:03 was presenting
1:38:04 and I looked at,
1:38:05 uh,
1:38:06 how,
1:38:06 uh,
1:38:06 different receiving a different amount of cash,
1:38:09 a bigger amount
1:38:10 allowed returnees to retrieve their documentation
1:38:14 and also to rebuild back their assets and so,
1:38:16 um,
1:38:17 uh,
1:38:17 people that had received a um bigger amount.
1:38:20 Um,
1:38:20 in the,
1:38:21 in terms of cash,
1:38:22 uh,
1:38:22 cash assistance upon return,
1:38:24 we're able to,
1:38:26 uh,
1:38:26 have,
1:38:26 um,
1:38:27 more property and,
1:38:28 um,
1:38:28 especially
1:38:29 a house.
1:38:30 Um
1:38:31 So,
1:38:32 um,
1:38:32 yeah,
1:38:32 I'll,
1:38:33 I'll stop there for the sake of time.
1:38:35 Thanks a lot.
1:38:36 Uh,
1:38:36 we are almost back on track,
1:38:38 so I will
1:38:39 just sneak in one last question,
1:38:41 uh,
1:38:41 and I think it will be more for the,
1:38:43 uh,
1:38:43 for the program,
1:38:44 uh,
1:38:45 uh,
1:38:45 uh,
1:38:46 stuff to,
1:38:46 to,
1:38:47 to address that because it's,
1:38:48 uh,
1:38:48 it's been asked by,
1:38:49 uh,
1:38:50 Ms.relia Larome,
1:38:52 um.
1:38:53 Complimenting the presentations and then saying how much of the
1:38:57 uh research the BOFP uh
1:38:59 uh research
1:39:01 works um have uh been applied to,
1:39:03 have applied a child lens.
1:39:05 Uh,
1:39:06 so how can we better address the particular socioeconomic needs
1:39:09 uh of possibly displaced children.
1:39:11 Uh,
1:39:12 as against general population and how can we strengthen our data and evidence,
1:39:16 uh,
1:39:16 for this highly,
1:39:17 uh,
1:39:18 vulnerable population groups.
1:39:20 Just thought I would,
1:39:21 uh,
1:39:21 would be good to bring this,
1:39:22 uh,
1:39:23 this perspective that
1:39:24 I don't think
1:39:25 was,
1:39:25 uh,
1:39:25 was in the meeting so far,
1:39:27 um.
1:39:28 Clo is yours.
1:39:29 What does this last,
1:39:30 uh,
1:39:31 last question,
1:39:31 if you can elaborate quickly on that
1:39:34 or point people in the right direction.
1:39:36 Uh,
1:39:37 yeah,
1:39:37 that's a good question,
1:39:39 and,
1:39:39 um,
1:39:40 I don't think it would be honest to say that
1:39:42 we have a line of research that specifically looked at,
1:39:45 uh,
1:39:46 uh,
1:39:47 children's needs
1:39:48 and,
1:39:49 and mothers of children's needs.
1:39:52 Um,
1:39:53 but what
1:39:54 Certainly came out from the research program is the fact
1:39:57 that when you're looking at the uh household poverty,
1:40:00 you're looking at household inequality
1:40:03 and you're trying to,
1:40:04 uh,
1:40:04 assess,
1:40:05 uh,
1:40:06 the,
1:40:06 um,
1:40:07 uh,
1:40:08 situation with well-being,
1:40:10 uh,
1:40:10 the inequality and the poverty we measure at the household level is
1:40:14 not the same as if we would measure at the children's level,
1:40:18 right.
1:40:20 So,
1:40:20 uh,
1:40:20 and that is for a simple reason.
1:40:22 It's that we measure well-being as,
1:40:24 uh,
1:40:25 household consumption per capita,
1:40:27 which,
1:40:28 uh,
1:40:28 essentially gives the same value to every member of the households.
1:40:32 So if we want to start really measuring the well-being of children,
1:40:36 we need to apply different lens,
1:40:38 which is that,
1:40:39 uh,
1:40:39 children are different in age,
1:40:41 they're different gender,
1:40:42 they have different needs,
1:40:44 uh,
1:40:44 and,
1:40:45 uh,
1:40:45 and therefore we need to adapt our measures and our measurement tools,
1:40:50 uh,
1:40:50 to be able to measure these differences.
1:40:53 So I don't think we are even at the beginning of that process,
1:40:56 but it's something that we need to do,
1:40:58 uh,
1:40:58 to,
1:40:59 uh,
1:40:59 begin that process.
1:41:02 Yeah,
1:41:02 good,
1:41:02 I'll just say one thing is that UNHCR,
1:41:04 you know,
1:41:05 we,
1:41:05 this is obviously a critical importance for us and,
1:41:08 you know,
1:41:08 in our work,
1:41:09 and in fact we have a new piece of work out with
1:41:11 Rice University and the University of Geneva where we do relax,
1:41:15 uh,
1:41:16 the assumption that,
1:41:17 uh,
1:41:17 households share equally among that person.
1:41:19 We find that,
1:41:20 uh,
1:41:21 with
1:41:22 Uh,
1:41:22 data,
1:41:22 poverty data in Uganda,
1:41:24 and any of the children,
1:41:25 the refugee children are the poorest members of the household,
1:41:28 uh,
1:41:28 and disproportionately so,
1:41:30 and that in fact actually also
1:41:32 less
1:41:33 so,
1:41:34 but still more proportionate disproportionately are also hosting.
1:41:37 So I think what that says is not that
1:41:39 children,
1:41:40 um,
1:41:41 The takeaway is that these are very poor communities and
1:41:44 that you know the most vulnerable within poor communities are children
1:41:47 so I think more work definitely needs to be focused
1:41:49 there but I'll put that link into the chat for excellent
1:41:53 excellent.
1:41:53 Thank you.
1:41:54 Thank you for that.
1:41:55 Um,
1:41:56 so now,
1:41:56 uh,
1:41:56 I'm sorry we,
1:41:57 we have a lot of,
1:41:57 uh,
1:41:58 very good questions on the,
1:41:59 on the chat,
1:41:59 but,
1:42:00 uh,
1:42:00 we'll have to move,
1:42:01 uh,
1:42:01 uh,
1:42:01 to the closing remarks.
1:42:03 Uh,
1:42:03 thanks a lot for the,
1:42:04 the active participation.
1:42:06 I think it was a very interesting and enlightening,
1:42:08 uh,
1:42:09 conversation.
1:42:10 Um,
1:42:10 and now,
1:42:11 uh,
1:42:11 I will turn to,
1:42:12 uh,
1:42:12 uh,
1:42:13 Mr.
1:42:13 uh,
1:42:13 Dylan Winder,
1:42:14 uh,
1:42:14 for his closing remarks.
1:42:16 Mr.
1:42:16 Winder is a deputy director and head of,
1:42:18 uh,
1:42:19 the humanitarian
1:42:20 department at the UK,
1:42:22 uh,
1:42:22 Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office.
1:42:25 Uh,
1:42:25 he joins us online,
1:42:27 and,
1:42:28 uh,
1:42:28 Mr.
1:42:28 Winder,
1:42:29 the,
1:42:29 the floor is yours for your,
1:42:30 uh,
1:42:31 your,
1:42:31 uh,
1:42:31 your,
1:42:31 uh,
1:42:31 closing remarks.
1:42:33 Over.
1:42:34 Great,
1:42:34 thank,
1:42:34 thanks very much,
1:42:35 and uh it,
1:42:36 it's great to be here,
1:42:37 uh,
1:42:37 and I,
1:42:37 and
1:42:38 I would like to thank um all the panelists and participants for a
1:42:41 really great and interesting discussion which touches on a lot of the,
1:42:44 the issues that also we're talking about within FCDO back in the UK
1:42:48 uh,
1:42:48 and I,
1:42:49 so I won't attempt to summarize any of the sort of key things from the,
1:42:52 the,
1:42:52 the,
1:42:52 the range of,
1:42:53 uh,
1:42:54 discussions,
1:42:54 but I thought the level of interest and,
1:42:55 and the,
1:42:56 the,
1:42:56 the,
1:42:57 the range of questions
1:42:58 really does show us how important the issues raised are.
1:43:01 Um,
1:43:02 I,
1:43:02 I think
1:43:03 what's key to,
1:43:04 to certainly for FCDO is,
1:43:05 is that this linkage that you really brought out between research,
1:43:08 policy and operations.
1:43:09 And we have heard some great examples today on what,
1:43:11 where that work has worked,
1:43:13 but I do think,
1:43:14 you know,
1:43:14 this is something that we also try to improve all the time,
1:43:16 so we need to really maximize
1:43:18 the impact that,
1:43:19 that research has on,
1:43:20 on our programs,
1:43:21 and maybe I should just say something very briefly.
1:43:23 Um,
1:43:24 so the department I manage covers,
1:43:26 it has the
1:43:27 responsibility for all the core funding to all of our humanitarian agencies.
1:43:31 It has,
1:43:31 uh,
1:43:32 all of the UK government's,
1:43:33 uh,
1:43:33 humanitarian policy and all of our
1:43:35 rapid onset tools,
1:43:36 and we do use,
1:43:37 uh,
1:43:38 data and research quite a lot.
1:43:39 I mean,
1:43:39 some,
1:43:40 some examples have been,
1:43:41 um,
1:43:41 the work we,
1:43:42 we are now promoting on anticipatory action and resilience came out of research,
1:43:46 the work we've.
1:43:47 Uh,
1:43:47 championed in the past around cash
1:43:49 has come out of research,
1:43:50 uh,
1:43:51 and,
1:43:51 and also we're,
1:43:52 we're great,
1:43:53 uh,
1:43:53 supportive of,
1:43:54 of things like the,
1:43:54 the data center that has,
1:43:56 has been mentioned.
1:43:57 We're working very closely with Otter and others on the JAF,
1:44:00 and we use a lot of that data in our own decision making.
1:44:02 So where do we,
1:44:03 where do we spend money in humanitarian response
1:44:05 globally.
1:44:06 Of course that's accompanied by M&E and,
1:44:08 and we have various mechanisms for that.
1:44:10 Uh,
1:44:11 but I should go back to the program.
1:44:12 So we,
1:44:12 we're,
1:44:13 we're really delighted to have,
1:44:14 have,
1:44:14 uh,
1:44:15 supported the,
1:44:15 uh,
1:44:16 building the evidence on pro
1:44:17 protracted forced displacement program.
1:44:20 Um,
1:44:21 we do think this is a really significant,
1:44:22 uh,
1:44:23 program,
1:44:23 and,
1:44:23 and it's both increased the overall body of research on forced displacement,
1:44:28 as well as,
1:44:29 uh,
1:44:29 how the programs used this research to support
1:44:31 better outcomes for people affected by displacement.
1:44:34 The other thing that we,
1:44:35 we,
1:44:35 I wanted to flag was really the deep collaboration between UNHCR,
1:44:38 World Bank and FCDO
1:44:40 on the research and how this has led both
1:44:42 to high quality research and very strong policy impact,
1:44:46 uh,
1:44:46 with the results of the research clearly disseminated and used by country teams,
1:44:49 and hopefully this will continue beyond the lifetime of the program.
1:44:53 Um,
1:44:54 a lot of the examples,
1:44:55 uh,
1:44:56 of impact were very interesting to us,
1:44:58 including those around education,
1:45:00 the emerging cash transfers,
1:45:01 health systems for forced displaced people.
1:45:03 And uh supporting effective program design uh
1:45:06 by testing some of the interventions and,
1:45:08 and looking at how that can be taken to scale.
1:45:11 Um,
1:45:12 overall,
1:45:13 I think we felt that the importance of,
1:45:15 um,
1:45:16 the understanding that this research has brought to the experiences of
1:45:20 forced displaced people or forcedly displaced people,
1:45:22 but,
1:45:23 but also how services,
1:45:24 uh,
1:45:24 when they're weak or not present,
1:45:26 are unable to serve all communities and,
1:45:27 and again I think we heard today from the,
1:45:29 the work in Chad
1:45:30 and also in Venezuela,
1:45:32 uh,
1:45:32 just to sort of.
1:45:33 To highlight some of the kind of practicalities of,
1:45:35 of where that research has really made a difference.
1:45:39 Um.
1:45:41 I think also,
1:45:42 you know,
1:45:42 it's really important that
1:45:44 um the,
1:45:45 the,
1:45:45 the finding from the research
1:45:47 that highlighted particularly the difficult environment
1:45:50 uh for people unable to access their right to freedom of movement
1:45:53 and also the importance of refugees being able to choose where they live,
1:45:56 work,
1:45:56 and,
1:45:57 and access services was,
1:45:59 was really critical.
1:46:00 And I was also
1:46:01 struck by a 0.1 of the panelists made about the different,
1:46:03 the difficulties in
1:46:05 accessing some areas.
1:46:07 So,
1:46:07 so,
1:46:08 you know,
1:46:08 how,
1:46:08 how do we.
1:46:09 How do we really understand
1:46:11 what the kind of challenges are for those areas where,
1:46:14 which are difficult for,
1:46:14 for researchers to access,
1:46:16 but also for,
1:46:16 for humanitarian operations.
1:46:18 So just,
1:46:19 just in conclusion from my side,
1:46:20 cos I realize we're running out of time,
1:46:25 um,
1:46:25 for us this event better outcomes for people affected by forced displacement
1:46:27 and has provided lessons for future researchers and,
1:46:29 and within SADO and,
1:46:31 and broader.
1:46:32 And I do hope that this discussion and collaboration can continue,
1:46:37 and I wonder whether there's opportunities to highlight some of
1:46:39 the work at the Global Refugee Forum later this year,
1:46:42 uh,
1:46:43 so we can sort of really demonstrate the importance of
1:46:47 a focus on
1:46:49 research
1:46:50 that is as an.
1:46:52 Uh the panelists mentioned is timely
1:46:56 and is able to influence,
1:46:57 uh,
1:46:57 some of,
1:46:58 some of the operational um work.
1:47:00 So thanks very much again for having us.
1:47:02 It's great to see uh a really successful outcome.
1:47:05 Uh,
1:47:05 back to you.
1:47:07 Thank you,
1:47:07 thank you,
1:47:08 and thank you for,
1:47:08 for
1:47:09 mentioning the,
1:47:09 the GRF at the end of the year.
1:47:11 That's probably
1:47:12 an actual uh uh space also that has a,
1:47:16 you know,
1:47:16 research component with the,
1:47:18 the game
1:47:19 and the measuring the impact of uh hosting uh uh and
1:47:22 protecting uh uh refugees if I remember well.
1:47:25 Um,
1:47:26 but,
1:47:26 uh,
1:47:27 that,
1:47:27 that will
1:47:28 be discussed,
1:47:29 I suppose,
1:47:29 in the,
1:47:29 in the months to come.
1:47:31 Uh,
1:47:31 on my side,
1:47:32 thanks again,
1:47:33 uh,
1:47:33 to all the participants,
1:47:34 Mr.
1:47:34 Winder,
1:47:35 for your,
1:47:35 uh,
1:47:36 concluding remarks.
1:47:37 Uh,
1:47:37 very interesting.
1:47:38 Uh,
1:47:39 to the participants and,
1:47:40 uh,
1:47:41 one thing I need to
1:47:42 tell you,
1:47:43 uh,
1:47:43 before I let you go is that,
1:47:44 uh,
1:47:45 uh,
1:47:45 there is,
1:47:46 it's not
1:47:47 the end of the program yet.
1:47:48 There is a training,
1:47:49 uh,
1:47:49 for practitioners and policymakers,
1:47:52 uh,
1:47:52 that is being developed jointly with the,
1:47:54 uh,
1:47:54 the Joint Data Center,
1:47:55 uh,
1:47:56 based on the findings of the program and,
1:47:58 uh,
1:47:58 it will be launched in the fall,
1:47:59 uh,
1:48:00 when the program's activity,
1:48:02 uh,
1:48:02 uh,
1:48:03 close.
1:48:04 Um,
1:48:04 so,
1:48:04 uh,
1:48:05 uh,
1:48:05 stay tuned and,
1:48:06 uh,
1:48:07 probably you will have,
1:48:08 uh,
1:48:08 an interest in this,
1:48:09 uh,
1:48:09 in this training program,
1:48:10 uh,
1:48:11 and maybe as a way to stay informed on that and encourage you all to,
1:48:15 uh,
1:48:16 um,
1:48:16 sign up on the program's website.
1:48:18 Uh,
1:48:18 I think that,
1:48:19 well,
1:48:19 you have on the,
1:48:20 on the slide,
1:48:21 the,
1:48:21 um,
1:48:22 the,
1:48:22 uh,
1:48:23 the URLs,
1:48:24 the website address,
1:48:25 where you can subscribe and get updates and
1:48:28 keep yourself informed with the,
1:48:29 with this,
1:48:30 uh,
1:48:30 this program.
1:48:31 Um,
1:48:32 thank you all.
1:48:33 Thanks to the,
1:48:33 the,
1:48:34 the panelists,
1:48:35 all the participants and contributions,
1:48:37 and have a good rest of your day,
1:48:38 uh,
1:48:39 wherever you are.
1:48:41 Bye thank you.
1:48:43 Yeah
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