00:00 But I want to bring it back
00:01 to our,
00:02 the center of our discussion,
00:05 and you have laid out
00:07 all of you,
00:07 uh,
00:08 very many options and ideas and thoughts on how
00:12 we could
00:13 move,
00:14 um,
00:15 and take advantage of this movement that is has already multiple arms and multiple
00:20 ways of doing things.
00:22 And I want to bring it back to
00:24 Helen who gave us a very,
00:26 very good,
00:27 uh,
00:27 introduction.
00:29 And of course,
00:30 Helen has been involved with the entertainment industry
00:33 uh for years now and she's keen,
00:36 she's a keen observer of how that entertainment industry
00:39 works.
00:40 So I wanted to kind of
00:42 perhaps push a little,
00:43 Helen,
00:44 to put
00:45 out some daring ideas
00:47 on how we take this forward in the next stage.
00:50 Um,
00:52 to kind of move away from the one-offs
00:54 and,
00:55 uh,
00:56 ad hoc
00:57 and maybe
00:58 finding a grant here and there,
00:59 and how do we establish
01:02 more of
01:03 a market
01:04 for entertainment
01:05 that is
01:07 good and striving,
01:08 um,
01:09 in moving forward.
01:12 You can use
01:13 uh whatever examples you wanna
01:16 bring,
01:16 and I hope you can,
01:17 you,
01:17 we can,
01:18 you can push it to think uh further.
01:21 Yeah.
01:21 Thank you so much.
01:22 I,
01:23 I,
01:23 I mean,
01:23 it's just fascinating to listen to all,
01:25 all the panelists on this call.
01:27 I've,
01:27 I've learned so much just on,
01:29 you know,
01:29 during the last hour and a half.
01:31 So I really thank you for sharing um your stories and your data.
01:34 It's,
01:34 it's absolutely fascinating.
01:36 And again,
01:36 thank you
01:37 to the World Bank.
01:39 Um,
01:39 for,
01:40 for setting this up with us.
01:41 Um,
01:42 I,
01:43 I mean,
01:43 for me,
01:44 honestly,
01:45 this is a no-brainer.
01:46 I,
01:46 I,
01:46 I don't understand why
01:49 the entertainment
01:50 world has not,
01:51 you know,
01:52 done more,
01:53 to be honest,
01:54 because
01:55 if,
01:55 if we can use,
01:57 you know,
01:58 shows and entertainment
01:59 to further this cause,
02:01 I just don't understand why we're not doing it,
02:03 to be honest.
02:04 We have
02:05 how many television viewers,
02:06 over 15 billion.
02:08 Is it 5.4 billion television users,
02:11 5 billion smartphone users?
02:14 I mean,
02:14 it seems like,
02:15 you know,
02:16 it's a perfect scenario for the entertainment world to go
02:19 out and really make a change in this world,
02:21 right?
02:22 So,
02:23 I mean,
02:23 I've myself watched shows on,
02:26 you know,
02:26 HBO had several shows built
02:29 around,
02:30 you know,
02:30 powerful storylines involving HIV and AIDS and
02:33 You know,
02:34 uh,
02:34 you know,
02:35 climate change,
02:36 and,
02:36 and I think those topics
02:38 can really be included more.
02:40 I think,
02:41 you know,
02:41 I think we can build on that.
02:44 Um,
02:44 I think storytellers have to come out and
02:46 just reimagine what stories they want to tell.
02:50 And,
02:50 and really use the storytelling in a positive way and,
02:54 and build on that and,
02:55 and engage
02:57 the audience.
02:58 Um,
02:58 it's,
02:59 it's,
02:59 as we know,
03:00 it's not a one-way street anymore.
03:01 There has to be definitely communication
03:04 and ideas,
03:05 and I think there's just so many ideas
03:07 that could be really have an impact,
03:10 impact on,
03:11 on
03:11 all our lives.
03:12 So I'm,
03:13 I'm actually a little bit puzzled why
03:16 this is not done more,
03:17 to be honest.
03:21 Reactions.
03:23 Uh,
03:23 maybe Madeleine,
03:24 you want to react to that.
03:26 Why,
03:27 why doesn't it
03:28 happen more organically,
03:30 or any other,
03:31 anybody else in the panel?
03:33 Well,
03:33 I'm happy to just jump in.
03:35 I mean,
03:35 there's a social imperative which we're talking about,
03:38 but there is actually a very self-serving business imperative,
03:42 and
03:42 what we found from a study with Movio,
03:45 which is a global theatrical
03:47 marketing,
03:48 um,
03:49 company,
03:49 is that
03:50 Um,
03:51 diverse audiences want to see
03:53 diverse stories,
03:55 and
03:56 when you do have that scenario,
03:58 look at,
03:58 you know,
03:58 Black Panther is one of those,
04:00 uh,
04:01 Wonder Woman is one of them,
04:02 Ms.
04:02 Marvel is one of them,
04:04 you will be rewarded at the.
04:05 Box office.
04:06 We did our own,
04:07 uh,
04:08 we call the Gina Benchmark report,
04:10 where
04:10 female-centric content generated 55% more at the box office over a 10-year period,
04:16 and diverse content,
04:18 uh,
04:18 generated the most money.
04:20 So I think
04:21 Although they may be slower,
04:23 uh,
04:24 it's being really recognized that
04:27 when you can tell,
04:28 you know,
04:29 diverse story stories you will be rewarded for that,
04:32 and that model is also reflected
04:35 in the TV industry,
04:36 um,
04:37 and I will give you an example of a very,
04:39 uh,
04:40 successful partnership.
04:41 It's not something,
04:42 it's not a program that we're doing,
04:44 but
04:45 Uh,
04:45 we're friends with them.
04:46 Um,
04:47 so the Eleanor Crook
04:49 Foundation created
04:51 a program called LifePack,
04:52 and in a in a nutshell,
04:55 uh,
04:55 when we talk about a crisis and,
04:57 and Sharon,
04:58 um,
04:58 Ms.
04:58 Stone alluded to this,
05:00 50 million children are malnutritioned around the world,
05:03 and so,
05:05 They created a program called LifePack where
05:07 they partner with gamers and gaming companies,
05:10 and
05:12 by embedding um kind of in-app game purchases,
05:15 which are like tokens and whatnot,
05:17 as
05:18 as the consumers playing the game do that,
05:20 and that.
05:21 Generates not only funds,
05:23 but
05:24 uh the distribution for this ready to use therapeutic food.
05:27 It's like a peanut butter base
05:29 that gets immediately,
05:30 you know,
05:30 distributed,
05:31 and
05:32 they did a very successful partnership with
05:35 uh SpongeBob.
05:37 Krusty Bake Off,
05:38 where
05:39 it was like a 56%,
05:41 you know,
05:41 activation.
05:42 So that's
05:43 a beautiful example of public,
05:45 private
05:46 entertainment coming together
05:48 to really foster
05:50 uh something that can address um a world problem.
05:56 I would just add,
05:57 you know,
05:58 on the research side,
05:59 and I'm
06:01 Um,
06:02 I've been writing a book which is coming out next year called Good Influence,
06:05 which part of it is to,
06:06 to give some of the lessons we've learned and we know as an agency
06:10 to as many people as they can,
06:12 as can,
06:13 as want it,
06:14 um,
06:14 to show how to do this.
06:15 And I think part of it's knowledge,
06:16 part of it's confidence,
06:18 but the research for the industry shows that consumers,
06:21 especially millennials and Gen Z,
06:24 They want to work for companies that do good.
06:27 They want to buy products from companies that do good.
06:29 It is a competitive advantage in the marketplace,
06:32 apart from you should do it because it's the right thing to do,
06:35 to do good.
06:35 And,
06:36 um,
06:37 you know,
06:37 one of the companies that combines that is Participant Media,
06:40 who I,
06:41 um,
06:42 work with on the music side.
06:43 They did,
06:44 did,
06:44 you know,
06:45 various documentaries like RBG or American Factory,
06:48 and also,
06:49 you know,
06:49 narrative films like,
06:50 um,
06:51 Green Book.
06:52 And
06:53 they have commercial results
06:55 by wrapping,
06:56 as I said before,
06:57 these serious subjects and entertaining properties.
06:59 So I think it's,
07:00 it's definitely,
07:01 uh,
07:01 viable,
07:02 even if it's not,
07:03 you know,
07:04 it doesn't have to be on the nose,
07:05 as they say in the entertainment industry.
07:07 And one of the areas my team are looking at,
07:09 uh,
07:10 with me is actually setting up some sort of a
07:14 Knowledge base we call this area cause influence.
07:17 It's kind of a derivative of cause marketing
07:19 where it's the use of popular culture for social change,
07:22 and we're looking at setting up this knowledge base and maybe
07:25 we can partner with some of the folk here.
07:27 To offer this as kind of
07:30 capacity building for the entertainment industry.
07:32 So I think there's a lot that we can,
07:34 we can do,
07:34 and I think it is moving forward.
07:37 I'm hearing financial incentives.
07:39 I'm hearing knowledge and capacity building,
07:42 uh,
07:42 Maher,
07:43 you have your hand up.
07:45 Yeah,
07:45 that's,
07:45 no,
07:46 I,
07:46 I think
07:47 we,
07:47 we have to recognize that there's actually a lot being done,
07:50 maybe not enough,
07:51 maybe we always want more,
07:53 but also they are,
07:54 they are private sector,
07:55 they are also
07:56 in,
07:56 in it for the business,
07:57 and this is some of the interactions that I referred to
08:00 is
08:01 how much is this gonna make me in the box office and
08:04 As polls showed,
08:05 the research shows actually that being more,
08:08 will give you diverse
08:10 productions and other,
08:11 uh,
08:11 uh,
08:11 Madeleine mentioned that
08:13 are more profitable and there is a market for that.
08:16 Sometimes it's,
08:17 it's profit or the bottom line,
08:19 but also sometimes it's political expediency.
08:22 I mentioned,
08:23 uh,
08:23 the
08:24 revolution.
08:25 Actually,
08:25 we had worked with the production,
08:27 with the talent to produce uh public service announcements
08:30 with the talent in the show on climate change,
08:32 you know,
08:33 simple campaigns,
08:34 you know,
08:34 about,
08:35 again,
08:36 behavioral change,
08:37 and they were supposed to go live on the 17th of December in on the Sci-Fi Channel.
08:43 Elections took place in 2017,
08:47 2016,
08:47 and uh a new president was
08:50 elected
08:51 and an executive decided
08:54 this is,
08:55 you know,
08:56 might,
08:57 there going to be a change in the administration and
08:58 their view on climate change is going to be different,
09:01 so they actually pulled off
09:03 the
09:04 The PSA's from uh being broadcast on the 17th of December.
09:08 Again,
09:09 it's a decision by an executive because of political expediency thinking,
09:12 oh this might not put me in the right place
09:14 with the new administration,
09:15 and that happens probably in other parts of the world in different ways,
09:18 but a lot has been,
09:19 you know,
09:20 uh,
09:21 we worked with,
09:21 uh,
09:22 Leonardo DiCaprio,
09:23 who's a UN messenger of peace on
09:26 Before the flood,
09:27 the documentary on climate change that he did,
09:29 and,
09:30 and we also were supportive of,
09:31 you know,
09:32 don't look up.
09:33 So these are,
09:34 there are some productions,
09:35 but I think it has to look
09:37 really natural and,
09:38 and the issue and how they bring it in needs
09:40 to fit with the storyline and to be authentic.
09:44 And this is why we say,
09:45 we have many stories in the UN,
09:47 so to,
09:47 we tell them,
09:48 you know,
09:48 come to us,
09:49 we can facilitate the stories and connections.
09:52 We don't want our emblem,
09:53 actually,
09:53 that's problematic,
09:54 the UN name and emblem when they appear,
09:56 we have to get legal agreements,
09:58 so it's about the story,
10:00 it's about changing the reality.
10:02 The world is facing
10:03 multiple crises at the same time,
10:05 we are all
10:07 We need all to get together,
10:09 whether entertainment,
10:10 whether it's music,
10:11 whether it's film,
10:12 television,
10:13 whether it's advertising.
10:14 And most recently we're trying to work with football as well,
10:17 we just,
10:17 you know,
10:18 the world of football,
10:19 come to the SDGs.
10:22 Well,
10:23 particularly issues like vaccinations and climate change where we need
10:27 concerted action and coordinated action across all countries
10:31 and all populations.
10:32 These are places where social media and entertainment
10:35 media can really uh add a lot to,
10:39 um,
10:39 the bottom line.
10:40 Kind of
10:41 motivating change at the same time,
10:43 but all the actors involved.
10:45 Edwin,
10:46 um,
10:48 You have your hands up,
10:49 please.
10:50 Yes,
10:50 thank you.
10:51 I,
10:51 I just wanted to emphasize the point about collective action
10:54 and,
10:54 and the reason why that is important is that in,
10:57 at,
10:57 in,
10:57 at an individual level,
10:59 talent,
10:59 celebrities,
11:00 storytellers
11:02 may not find it expedient,
11:03 may not find it,
11:04 um,
11:05 profitable,
11:06 or they haven't,
11:07 they don't have the knowledge or they don't have the,
11:09 they haven't really.
11:10 And the information about how this can
11:12 help their brand,
11:13 but I do think that if we have like the um HFBA
11:17 we have such kind of associations of entertainers
11:20 where they come together and collectively decide that
11:23 this is something we need to do.
11:25 Because we know the influence that we wield over
11:28 populations in terms of how we,
11:30 we have to change or catalyze
11:32 change in a particular way,
11:33 even negative changes.
11:35 So
11:35 they are the,
11:36 they're,
11:36 they're the trailers.
11:37 They,
11:37 they,
11:38 they basically trail the blaze for
11:40 all kinds of things.
11:41 So
11:42 if we,
11:42 if we are able to get
11:44 this kind of collective
11:46 To also think about the positive impact that they can have
11:50 in terms of not just the content of what they do,
11:52 but
11:52 even the way they portray some kind of culture and norms,
11:55 right?
11:56 Especially talking about the things that,
11:57 the,
11:57 the things that Madeleine talked about,
11:59 the level of consciousness that
12:01 we cannot,
12:02 um,
12:02 we cannot perpetuate
12:04 existing stereotypes unless if,
12:06 and we should be doing that,
12:07 we have to be deliberate
12:08 and as such,
12:09 at that collective level,
12:10 take a decision.
12:11 Such that script,
12:12 scriptwriters and,
12:13 and,
12:14 and actors and actresses
12:16 can
12:16 at least have that as a kind of
12:19 indicator
12:21 to say,
12:21 are you perpetuating some stereotypes that
12:23 have negative consequences by this story
12:26 and then be,
12:27 be more conscious of that.
12:28 So,
12:28 I think collective action is important.
12:30 Political will is key on the,
12:32 on the,
12:32 on the,
12:32 on the,
12:33 on the terms of uh uh you know,
12:35 those who hold the power.
12:36 Um,
12:37 uh,
12:37 on the political side,
12:38 but on the terms of,
12:39 in terms of those who are really producing,
12:41 on the supply side itself,
12:42 collective action,
12:43 I think,
12:43 has not really taken place,
12:45 and
12:45 that's why this kind of forum will be important
12:47 if we recognize
12:49 those who are doing great work,
12:51 you know,
12:52 and,
12:52 and,
12:52 and call them,
12:53 uh,
12:53 and,
12:53 and,
12:54 and celebrate them when they do great work,
12:56 that can incentivize others to also come into the,
12:58 into this way.
12:59 I just wanted to,
13:00 uh,
13:00 put that as well.
13:01 Thank you.
13:02 Yeah,
13:02 thank you,
13:02 Edwin.
13:03 In fact,
13:03 I,
13:04 if Ellen allows me,
13:05 I'm gonna put her on the spot on this
13:08 because our excitement about having
13:10 the Hollywood Foreign Press Association with us today and
13:14 for the future
13:15 is really changing those incentives at the market level.
13:19 Uh,
13:19 kind of encouraging
13:21 and rewarding
13:22 behavior
13:23 and content
13:25 and portrayals
13:26 in,
13:27 uh,
13:27 in entertainment that help us move in the right direction.
13:31 So,
13:31 so I'm gonna ask Ellen to comment on that,
13:34 um,
13:35 and see how do we move those,
13:37 how do we move those incentives forward.
13:39 There are many actors,
13:40 but you,
13:40 you
13:41 kind of form a little bit of a,
13:43 an umbrella,
13:44 uh,
13:44 so to speak,
13:45 for that market.
13:46 Yeah,
13:47 thank you so much,
13:48 Ariana.
13:49 No,
13:49 I,
13:49 I think,
13:50 you know,
13:50 because our membership is so diverse,
13:53 and we come from 55 different countries,
13:55 and hopefully from,
13:57 you know,
13:57 many more countries in the future,
13:59 as we're adding more members to our organization,
14:02 I think we have
14:04 a very good perspective on what is going on in the world and,
14:08 and,
14:08 you know,
14:09 the cultural beat on really the entertainment world around
14:12 everywhere.
14:14 So,
14:14 you know,
14:14 our members have historically
14:17 awarded,
14:18 you know,
14:19 people that
14:20 other people,
14:21 that other award shows haven't.
14:22 So,
14:23 you know,
14:23 especially people like,
14:25 for example,
14:25 Guillermo del Toro,
14:27 or just this year,
14:28 we awarded Squid.
14:30 Games.
14:30 So,
14:30 you know,
14:31 and those are things that I think
14:33 we're seeing
14:34 very much our organization is pointing out.
14:37 The world has grown.
14:38 We are very proud of being trailblazers when it comes to finding
14:42 hidden gems and talent from around the world.
14:46 And,
14:47 you know,
14:47 I think in that way,
14:48 we can introduce,
14:50 you know,
14:50 new talent to the world and,
14:53 and also see how important it is to,
14:55 to have this talent speak out about certain issues.
14:58 I think this is for us foreigners,
15:00 especially important and
15:02 um,
15:03 you know,
15:03 as the world grows more and more.
15:05 So this is a perfect fit for the,
15:07 for the Golden Globes.
15:11 Thank you,
15:11 Helen.
15:13 Christopher?
15:15 Yeah,
15:16 thanks,
15:16 Ariana.
15:17 Uh,
15:18 just a,
15:19 a,
15:19 a short word,
15:20 uh,
15:21 that,
15:22 I mean,
15:22 we all know that.
15:24 The private sector,
15:25 uh,
15:26 always has this creative tension between,
15:29 on the one hand,
15:30 the profit incentive making it risk averse in certain areas,
15:35 but also the profit incentive
15:38 drives it to take risks.
15:40 Uh,
15:40 that,
15:41 uh,
15:41 one of the arguments that I make to different media
15:44 companies around the world about global health issues is that
15:49 These are untold stories.
15:50 This is new content.
15:52 Uh,
15:52 this is a gold mine that hasn't been tapped,
15:55 you know,
15:55 and,
15:56 and,
15:57 and I think as we've seen with,
15:59 uh,
15:59 some of the streaming services out there,
16:01 uh,
16:02 Squid Game was mentioned,
16:03 but,
16:03 uh,
16:04 there are also,
16:05 um,
16:06 uh,
16:07 uh.
16:08 Lupin,
16:09 uh,
16:09 the,
16:10 the French,
16:10 uh,
16:11 um,
16:12 uh,
16:12 adventure show was,
16:13 uh,
16:14 number one on Netflix,
16:15 uh,
16:16 around the world.
16:17 Uh,
16:17 you,
16:17 you have,
16:18 uh,
16:19 an opportunity to
16:20 not just look at
16:22 diversity for its own sake,
16:24 but new markets.
16:25 Uh,
16:26 and,
16:26 and for me,
16:27 as someone interested in,
16:29 in public health and in,
16:31 uh,
16:31 the
16:32 psychosocial impact of these things,
16:35 um,
16:36 I see it fundamentally as
16:38 not just diversity,
16:39 but,
16:39 but actually
16:41 being able to
16:43 Again,
16:43 put yourself into the shoes of someone in a
16:46 totally different circumstance than you grew up in,
16:48 and,
16:49 and to,
16:49 to look at that perspective.
16:51 And as,
16:51 as we've seen in the world today,
16:53 with
16:54 the wars that are happening,
16:55 the conflicts,
16:56 we,
16:57 uh,
16:58 concentrate so much on
17:00 the,
17:01 the differences and,
17:02 and the antagonisms,
17:04 uh,
17:04 cause it,
17:05 it,
17:05 it does set off a,
17:06 a,
17:06 a
17:07 reaction,
17:08 you know,
17:08 the clickbait reaction that,
17:10 uh,
17:10 the,
17:11 the,
17:12 the shock and anger reaction is what is what in the short-term cells.
17:16 But what we're talking about is something,
17:18 uh,
17:18 a little deeper,
17:19 a little more sustained.
17:21 It's,
17:21 it's the connection that we have with people.
17:24 Uh,
17:24 and,
17:25 and that's actually a different part of the brain.
17:28 Um,
17:28 that's,
17:29 that's,
17:30 you know,
17:30 rather than,
17:31 um,
17:32 Trying to manipulate people by getting them angry
17:34 and making them feel fearful about each other,
17:37 to to start
17:38 feeling that empathic connection with people who are different than
17:42 than ourselves,
17:43 who,
17:43 who look differently,
17:44 who speak differently,
17:45 who have different circumstances,
17:47 and then in that connection realize,
17:49 oh my God,
17:50 the fundamental emotions are the same.
17:53 We are one species,
17:55 you know,
17:56 and that's,
17:56 that's a profound thing,
17:58 I think.
18:00 Yeah,
18:00 I think this is what
18:01 Helen was getting to,
18:03 kind of
18:04 really opening up
18:06 um
18:07 and exposing audiences
18:10 to very different cultural realities
18:13 and productions from all over the world.
18:15 I have seen this with my own eyes to my own children,
18:19 how excited
18:20 they are watching
18:23 Japanese productions in Japanese.
18:26 Uh,
18:26 changing the way they learn languages or appreciate different cultures and really
18:34 feeling quite close to some of these productions and really enjoying,
18:39 uh,
18:39 a complete different set
18:41 of entertainment.
18:43 This is really,
18:44 really.
18:44 Really exciting.
18:45 Um,
18:46 I,
18:46 you also open up the issue of
18:49 empathy,
18:50 um,
18:50 and of course we have seen an explosion in social media.
18:54 So how do we
18:56 use the social media effectively?
18:58 I want to bring in Victor for his perspective
19:02 on
19:03 the,
19:04 on
19:05 his work.
19:05 Edwin,
19:05 of course,
19:06 has mentioned
19:07 a lot on using social media,
19:09 but Victor,
19:10 what is your,
19:11 um,
19:11 take on how do we leverage
19:14 Entertainment content in the context of
19:17 advocacy campaigns delivered through social media
19:20 and what is the role you feel,
19:22 we haven't talked a lot about apps other than in your own presentation,
19:25 but I'm interested to see,
19:27 to hear about the role of those apps for longer-term impacts.
19:34 Thanks,
19:34 Arianna.
19:36 Before I answer your questions,
19:37 I,
19:37 I wanted to make a quick comment of the uh
19:40 of the previous conversation of what are the commercial incentives,
19:44 right,
19:44 uh,
19:44 for scaling up edutainment
19:46 and and a good statistic is that,
19:49 uh,
19:49 as,
19:50 uh,
19:51 Netflix subscriptions are saturated in the US and other developed countries.
19:55 Uh,
19:56 subscription rates in developing countries are rapidly,
20:00 uh,
20:00 growing,
20:01 so there's also that commercial angle of producing
20:04 more diverse,
20:05 more global stories,
20:06 um,
20:07 that are being consumed in developing countries,
20:10 uh,
20:10 major clients of Netflix,
20:12 and many other producers and distributors of entertainment media,
20:16 uh,
20:16 to your question.
20:19 You know,
20:19 edutainment,
20:21 that positive movie,
20:22 documentary,
20:24 can,
20:24 can hit the right notes
20:26 uh for you to empathize,
20:28 um,
20:30 uh,
20:31 towards,
20:31 uh,
20:32 other groups,
20:33 and change your attitudes and behaviors in a positive manner.
20:37 But sometimes you need reinforcers,
20:39 right?
20:39 Because ultimately you will go back to your community,
20:42 to your own reality,
20:44 right?
20:44 So reinforcers are good uh to,
20:47 to remind you about that connection you had
20:49 with that character,
20:51 right?
20:52 Uh,
20:52 with that storyline you saw.
20:54 And there's some companies like Participant Media that have,
20:57 uh,
20:58 they produce obviously uh Oscar-winning,
21:01 Golden Globe-winning productions.
21:03 But they also have an advocacy,
21:04 uh,
21:05 uh,
21:05 angle,
21:06 so they have the social media campaigns aimed at influencing policy.
21:10 Uh,
21:11 they have some great examples in Mexico
21:13 where they helped,
21:14 uh,
21:14 push some of the,
21:15 the,
21:16 the,
21:16 the,
21:16 the,
21:17 the,
21:17 the reforms around the labor markets for,
21:20 for,
21:20 um,
21:21 uh,
21:21 folks working in,
21:22 in,
21:23 in,
21:23 in households
21:24 now,
21:25 um.
21:26 That's great,
21:27 you know,
21:27 reinforce our messaging in social media,
21:30 but
21:31 for things like learning how to read like we showed in our presentation,
21:34 you need more than a punchy uh,
21:36 message.
21:37 You need some learning tools,
21:39 so
21:39 literacy,
21:40 games,
21:41 right,
21:42 through learning by,
21:43 by,
21:44 by playing principles
21:45 can be that interactive book,
21:48 uh,
21:48 that will teach kids how to read,
21:50 uh,
21:51 the,
21:51 the apps I,
21:52 I showed Feed the Monster and Global Digital Library.
21:55 Um,
21:56 those are favorites of my children because they
21:58 have this strong entertainment elements to it,
22:01 but of course,
22:02 uh,
22:02 smartphones are household assets at the end of the day,
22:06 so we could be,
22:07 uh,
22:07 complementing a lot of our entertainment campaigns
22:10 with apps
22:12 targeting different household members,
22:14 right?
22:14 Mobile banking.
22:16 Right that uh can allow uh women or or or small enterprises
22:20 uh to to do better business to uh through mobile banking apps,
22:25 um,
22:26 mental health apps of course all approved by international national
22:31 health bodies,
22:32 I think it's another great opportunity,
22:35 uh.
22:35 Coaches,
22:36 uh,
22:36 virtual
22:38 app chatbot coaches
22:40 can also be a,
22:41 a good opportunity to explore,
22:43 especially for,
22:44 for populations that do not have access
22:46 to traditional,
22:47 uh,
22:47 health resources,
22:49 uh,
22:49 so I,
22:50 I think there's a big,
22:51 big power for using apps
22:53 for long term impacts.
22:55 Thank you.
22:57 I actually see this as uh individual learning.
23:01 It's a huge opportunity to
23:04 completely tailor and customize learning to each individual user.
23:08 This we,
23:09 we have not really been able to do before.
23:12 And,
23:13 you know,
23:13 the example of these educational apps in native languages,
23:17 I think it's extraordinary.
23:20 Because the education systems
23:22 are,
23:23 have a real,
23:24 real hard time
23:26 teaching children
23:27 in,
23:28 you know,
23:29 the legal language of a country when those
23:31 children are coming in without knowing that language.
23:34 So they,
23:35 they are,
23:36 they have
23:37 double barriers
23:38 to overcome,
23:39 to actually become literate and numerate,
23:42 and so these apps,
23:43 I feel are
23:45 A wonderful solution to teaching children in their own
23:48 language before they're asked to learn a foreign language,
23:51 so to speak.
23:53 Um,
23:53 and
23:54 so they're,
23:54 they're,
23:54 and,
23:55 and this
23:56 is not only in education but across the board,
23:59 you know,
23:59 being very targeted for health issues
24:02 and uh banking needs and mobile money.
24:05 So these are really,
24:07 really exciting developments that technology
24:10 is enabling,
24:11 um,
24:12 today.
24:13 How do we scale it up and how do we push for it?
24:16 I think the World Bank
24:17 and even our president is super interested in,
24:20 in,
24:20 uh,
24:20 in supporting these type of initiatives.
24:25 But we need to create content.
24:27 The content is the fundamental ingredient,
24:30 not only the technology,
24:32 but a high quality content.
24:34 I think Paul wanted to come in.
24:36 Paul?
24:37 Yes,
24:38 yes.
24:38 And
24:39 it's super interesting.
24:40 I want,
24:40 I want to
24:41 talk a little bit about music because I'm kind of,
24:43 even though I do music for films,
24:44 I really the music guy here a little bit.
24:47 Music has an economy of scale that is much less than making a movie.
24:52 And that an individual can do,
24:54 you know,
24:54 I'm in my bedroom using GarageBand,
24:56 and then I can make the song and I can push it out on the web.
25:00 And I think,
25:01 you know,
25:01 coming back to,
25:01 I think what Chris was saying,
25:03 music is an international language,
25:05 and I think it has empathy
25:07 and connections,
25:08 and,
25:08 you know,
25:08 I remember when I was 18,
25:09 you know,
25:09 I had my first kiss and this song was playing or
25:12 Dire Straits was my,
25:13 uh,
25:13 was a song when I got married or Moneybagg Yo last week was blah blah,
25:17 blah blah.
25:18 So I think,
25:18 I think,
25:20 you know,
25:20 music,
25:21 the use of music,
25:22 whether it's
25:22 in a visual medium like Green Book where we're participants in ourselves,
25:27 um,
25:27 saw the,
25:28 saw the music.
25:30 Can be very,
25:30 very,
25:31 very meaningful,
25:32 and I wanted to talk about one impactful one,
25:35 and we've done stuff with Ziggy Marley,
25:36 Angelique Kijo with videos for polio,
25:40 but the rapper Logic did a did a song called 1-800,
25:43 I think it was 273-8255 on suicide.
25:47 And it was a huge hit.
25:48 I mean,
25:49 absolutely huge.
25:49 It was a great song and it resonated with a lot of young people,
25:52 and the British Medical Journal research on that showed the suicide rates
25:56 went down and calls into suicide prevention lines went up.
26:00 And I just want to put a shout out there for music because it's a cheap,
26:04 creative way of reaching a lot of young people and desired audiences.
26:08 And as Sharon said,
26:09 just to finish it,
26:10 as Sharon said,
26:12 young people,
26:12 whether it's on TikTok,
26:15 through,
26:15 you know,
26:16 Um,
26:17 Louis Thoreau's,
26:18 uh,
26:19 My Money don't jingle jing jingle jingle,
26:22 um,
26:23 you know,
26:23 viral thing that just went crazy,
26:26 um.
26:27 Influencers themselves have a position in society and can relay messages.
26:32 We're just doing something for the National Trust,
26:35 and Shonda Rhimes sending something out
26:39 has a big impact on a lot of people who
26:41 follow her and feel trust and credibility with her.
26:44 Plus it's an easy and cheap way of distribution.
26:46 So that's my two cents.
26:49 Yeah,
26:50 thank you,
26:50 Paul.
26:51 Um,
26:52 what was your experience with that,
26:54 Chris,
26:54 um,
26:55 Edwin,
26:56 I meant to say Edwin,
26:58 but Chris also,
26:59 they managed to
27:01 to pull off the fundraising television concert with the Lady Gaga,
27:04 so you're welcome to comment as well,
27:06 but I wanted to hear from Edwin what his experience was in the,
27:09 uh,
27:09 using,
27:10 use of music in the one campaigns.
27:15 Yeah,
27:15 thank you.
27:16 I think there are,
27:17 so,
27:17 several things.
27:18 First of all,
27:18 it's about the mood.
27:19 Who are we targeting,
27:20 who,
27:20 who are we trying to reach?
27:22 And I think when we,
27:24 when we,
27:24 the first part in terms of
27:26 uh we've used music in like in several campaigns.
27:29 When we did what we call do a Greek,
27:31 it was a campaign to,
27:32 um,
27:33 you know,
27:34 get attention to the
27:35 viability of the agriculture sector as a business,
27:38 not just as a development case.
27:40 And we try to make agriculture sexy in that sense.
27:43 And so we got the,
27:44 the,
27:45 you know,
27:45 the most popular singer at that time in Nigeria,
27:47 the banj,
27:48 and about 19 other African artists together
27:51 and then we got them to do this uh Kokonut hocolate song,
27:54 right?
27:55 That went
27:56 super viral,
27:57 but we also combined that with
27:59 a social media campaign saying,
28:01 and,
28:02 and worked with telcos to,
28:04 to turn it into ringtones and all of,
28:06 all,
28:07 we went through the whole process to try to get
28:10 The message that
28:11 agriculture is viable.
28:13 And because,
28:13 and that was
28:14 in response to one,
28:15 the underinvestment in agriculture sector across Africa,
28:19 as well as the,
28:19 the
28:20 uh aging,
28:21 aging,
28:22 um,
28:22 aging population of farmers who,
28:24 who were there
28:25 to basically get young people to see agriculture
28:28 as a sexy area,
28:29 as a,
28:29 as a sector that can actually pro uh produce money.
28:32 So,
28:32 in doing that,
28:33 we It was,
28:34 it was viral and,
28:35 and we saw the potential of using music
28:38 to really gather public,
28:39 public support
28:40 to the extent that the Nigerian government,
28:42 you know,
28:42 appointed the band as
28:44 the Negro Premier Ambassador,
28:46 as it were,
28:47 basically promoting
28:48 young people in,
28:49 in,
28:49 in agribusiness.
28:51 And again,
28:51 of course,
28:51 it ended up being on the World Bank's End Poverty campaign
28:56 that also did concerts,
28:57 uh,
28:57 you know,
28:57 all over the world.
28:59 So,
28:59 that was one way of showcasing the,
29:01 the power of musical talent in that sense and
29:04 using music to really um
29:07 you know,
29:07 send messages across many populations.
29:09 We also did one in 2015 called Strong Girl where we were looking at,
29:13 um,
29:14 you know,
29:14 the role,
29:15 the,
29:15 the,
29:15 the,
29:15 yeah,
29:15 the strength of a woman and then the idea was
29:18 the feminization of poverty and trying to put the face of,
29:21 hey,
29:22 you know,
29:23 we,
29:23 we need to do better in terms of the gender,
29:24 our.
29:25 Gender campaign and that itself,
29:26 you know,
29:27 went super viral with about 8
29:29 African artists coming together
29:31 and using the song,
29:32 the song Strong Girl as a rallying call
29:34 to talk about the,
29:35 the power of,
29:36 of the,
29:36 of the female gender,
29:38 you know,
29:38 and then our latest,
29:39 uh,
29:40 work on,
29:40 on music was in,
29:41 in,
29:41 in COVID,
29:41 which I mentioned during my presentation
29:43 where we basically brought in about 10 African artists.
29:46 This,
29:46 the idea then was to just talk about
29:49 the despair,
29:50 people's,
29:50 people's
29:51 You know,
29:52 anger,
29:52 um,
29:53 everything that came with COVID.
29:55 The,
29:55 the,
29:55 the,
29:56 the,
29:56 it was a really depressing time.
29:58 So this was the,
29:59 the,
29:59 the idea of that song was was to stand
30:02 together because together we can come out of this.
30:04 And that was,
30:05 that went viral across the,
30:07 across the,
30:07 the continent.
30:08 As well,
30:08 um,
30:09 because people,
30:10 people,
30:10 it was not preachy.
30:12 It was not a,
30:13 a way to get people to act in a particular way,
30:15 but it was more of an encouragement and then to get people to see that
30:19 if we act together,
30:20 if we follow the rules,
30:21 we wash our hands and we do all of those things,
30:23 we can get out of it.
30:25 So we've seen the power of music in mobilizing basically.
30:28 And these artists,
30:29 these talents who already have their followers,
30:31 when they feature in a song.
30:33 Their,
30:34 their,
30:34 their fan base are actually looking out for what they are bringing out,
30:37 for what they are producing.
30:38 And when they see such kind of collaborations and they see
30:41 their,
30:41 their,
30:42 their,
30:42 their favorite artists
30:44 talking about a specific issue,
30:46 it becomes an issue of interest for them.
30:48 And so what,
30:49 what,
30:49 what we've,
30:50 what we've seen is that
30:51 sometimes,
30:52 um,
30:54 I think the biggest challenge we've seen in that whole process is one is educating
30:58 the talent themselves to be
30:59 knowledgeable enough to talk with conviction.
31:02 And that is the back end of the work
31:05 that requires some investment because
31:07 they will not sing about
31:08 things they don't know about,
31:10 right?
31:10 They won't talk with conviction
31:12 if they,
31:12 if they're not fully aware of the implications of whatever they are saying.
31:16 And so we do a lot of handholding.
31:18 Get them all of the briefings,
31:20 get them the,
31:20 the,
31:21 the,
31:21 the education to get them to be
31:23 at par with what the,
31:25 you know,
31:25 what the people
31:26 uh should be hearing.
31:28 And then he's able to go out there,
31:30 use his craft.
31:30 We don't prescribe.
31:32 So they use their own craft,
31:34 their own style,
31:35 their own genre to
31:36 create the content
31:38 based on the knowledge and the education we've given to them.
31:41 And that we've seen that to be really quite effective in mobilizing
31:44 and getting the right audience for the right issues.
31:47 Edwin,
31:47 you seem to have read my mind,
31:50 because my question was,
31:52 you know,
31:52 my next question was going to be,
31:53 do we worry about content
31:55 in music as much as we worry about content
31:59 in
32:00 dramas,
32:01 um.
32:03 And,
32:04 and now you've answered the question in terms of guiding and,
32:06 and informing,
32:08 uh,
32:08 but how do we think of that?
32:10 I think it's important and,
32:12 and,
32:12 and,
32:12 and Chris,
32:13 earlier you mentioned the kind of ethical concerns
32:17 with
32:18 the power of mass media manipulating values in societies.
32:23 Is this
32:24 a fair criticism of what we're doing?
32:27 How do we address it?
32:29 How do we think of
32:30 this combined effort
32:31 and still keep it true to its purpose,
32:33 which is not to impose,
32:36 but I,
32:37 I think it's a will.
32:40 Um,
32:40 I think it's a real creative tension,
32:42 honestly.
32:43 Uh,
32:44 there are times when
32:46 there are messages that need to get out there to save lives,
32:50 you know,
32:51 uh,
32:51 uh,
32:52 at the beginning of the pandemic,
32:54 getting the message out there
32:55 for proper hand sanitation,
32:57 uh,
32:58 before we had a vaccine,
32:59 uh,
33:00 when
33:00 the death rates and the hospital rates were,
33:02 were soaring,
33:04 uh,
33:04 in the pandemic,
33:05 um,
33:06 That message had to get out there.
33:08 Uh,
33:09 people had to understand it.
33:11 Um.
33:12 But I,
33:13 I,
33:13 I also think that
33:15 part of the power
33:16 of,
33:17 of the arts
33:19 isn't just
33:21 Telling people what to think or how to feel,
33:24 or how to behave,
33:25 but
33:26 empowering them to express
33:29 uh what what their authentic truth is,
33:32 uh,
33:33 whatever that is.
33:33 So,
33:34 so,
33:35 uh,
33:35 I,
33:35 I,
33:36 I think there is a creative tension there.
33:38 Um,
33:39 part of what we're interested in on the research side of WHO isn't just
33:44 showing that
33:45 Uh,
33:46 use of the arts or entertainment or media is effective at
33:51 behavior modification.
33:53 But why?
33:55 Uh,
33:55 what,
33:55 what's happening biochemically?
33:57 What's happening neurologically that
34:00 has this effect?
34:01 And it's,
34:02 it's obviously a,
34:03 a complex,
34:05 uh,
34:05 question,
34:06 but
34:07 one of the things that I think is,
34:08 is emerging is that if you try to explain somebody
34:12 logically,
34:13 um,
34:14 why
34:15 they should do a certain thing,
34:17 uh,
34:17 with evidence,
34:18 um,
34:21 That gets processed in
34:23 the frontal cortex of the brain,
34:25 which is where we think,
34:27 where our conscious mind is,
34:29 but unfortunately,
34:30 that's not where
34:31 behavior
34:32 uh is happening.
34:34 That's not where our sense of identity is.
34:36 That's in the midbrain
34:38 and to access that
34:39 you have to have emotions.
34:41 You have to have empathy.
34:42 Thank you,
34:43 thank you,
34:43 Chris.
34:44 So we're actually at the end of our session.
34:46 I want,
34:46 I want a very quick question,
34:48 one word
34:49 each of you.
34:50 If there is one ingredient,
34:53 one ingredient
34:54 that you would point to
34:56 to advance the goals for expanding
34:57 the entertainment to development sector partnership,
35:00 what would that ingredient be?
35:06 Mobilization for action.
35:09 It is no longer enough to inform.
35:12 If we want to communicate
35:14 properly,
35:14 we need to also provide the tools and hope that change is possible
35:19 and
35:19 somewhere in,
35:21 in the field of
35:23 Hollywood
35:24 Foreign Press Association,
35:25 the awards can be a way to incentivize the creators,
35:29 but in what
35:30 is the type of an award that can actually encourage this kind of production that
35:35 leads into a change of behavior and actions
35:38 to get us
35:39 to a better place.
35:41 Thank you,
35:41 Maher.
35:41 You have overrun your one word by many,
35:44 many,
35:44 many words.
35:45 Victor.
35:46 Systematic collaboration between storytellers
35:49 and professional development psych,
35:51 psychology experts.
35:53 Madeleine.
35:55 It's commitment
35:58 Period.
36:00 Paul,
36:02 Creativity is important and that anyone irrespective of their size
36:06 or geography can use pop culture for social change.
36:11 Chris,
36:12 one word.
36:14 3 words.
36:16 4.
36:16 Hope is a creative act.
36:20 Thank you,
36:20 Edwin.
36:22 Investment is the word.
36:23 We need more investment in this,
36:25 in this,
36:26 if we believe in this.
36:27 So,
36:27 and I think
36:28 uh collaboration will bring investments,
36:30 I,
36:30 I hope.
36:31 I learned the closing word.
36:34 Um,
36:34 creative storytelling and curiosity for,
36:37 for other nations,
36:39 cultures,
36:40 just as we all are from all over the world.
36:43 Let's think more global.
36:45 Let's not think of like one country.
36:47 We are,
36:48 you know,
36:49 we come from many,
36:50 many,
36:50 many different countries,
36:51 and we should think as,
36:52 as one world.
36:54 Thank you,
36:55 Ellen.
36:55 Thank you all of you for a great participation and thank you to our audience
37:00 and uh we're going to do more.
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