00:02 Arlo.
00:02 Thank you for joining the webinar organized by Tap Awi.
00:07 My name is Elizabeth Hasidu.
00:09 I'm a professor of economics at Howard University
00:14 and then also the president and founder of
00:18 the Association for the Advancement of African Women Economists.
00:24 So for those of you unfamiliar with
00:28 AI,
00:28 it's a research network
00:31 established in 2012 that focuses on facilitating the professional development
00:37 of African women economists,
00:40 and one of the events organized by AW
00:43 is
00:44 mentoring mentoring programs.
00:48 Now,
00:48 with the support of the World Bank's African division,
00:51 Awi has organized two rounds of a virtual mentoring program
00:57 with about 110 women participating as mentees and about
01:02 30 mentors.
01:05 Now,
01:05 this webinar today marks the end of the 2nd round of the mentoring program.
01:11 So,
01:12 on behalf of
01:14 African women economists
01:16 and myself,
01:17 of course,
01:18 I would like to thank Dr.
01:20 Andrew
01:21 Dabelin,
01:22 the chief economist of the
01:24 um
01:26 World
01:26 World Bank.
01:28 African division,
01:30 who is also
01:31 a panelist today.
01:33 I would like to also thank
01:35 uh Dr.
01:35 Justice Mason,
01:37 Ms.
01:38 Juliet
01:39 Lena,
01:39 and then Ms.
01:40 Celine Apollon for
01:42 their support in facilitating the program.
01:45 A big shout out to all of you.
01:47 We appreciate that a lot.
01:50 And so,
01:52 Also to Andrew Christia and Findness,
01:55 thank you for accepting the invitation
01:59 to
02:00 participate in the webinar.
02:03 So we have about an
02:05 hour.
02:07 For this event is
02:09 kind of short,
02:10 so
02:11 I will start by asking
02:15 the speakers to introduce themselves.
02:18 We can start with Andrew Christie,
02:21 and then fight next,
02:22 please.
02:25 OK.
02:26 Uh,
02:26 hello,
02:26 can you hear me?
02:28 Yes.
02:29 Fantastic.
02:30 OK,
02:30 uh,
02:30 so good morning,
02:31 everyone.
02:31 Good afternoon.
02:32 It's a pleasure to be here.
02:35 Um,
02:36 it's,
02:36 I know it's been,
02:38 it's,
02:38 it's
02:39 taken several iterations to try and organize this seminar,
02:43 so I'm glad that we can finally do it.
02:46 Uh.
02:48 My name is Andrew Davien.
02:49 I'm the chief economist for the African Region of the World Bank.
02:52 Um,
02:53 and this is,
02:54 uh,
02:54 the office where we
02:56 actually support,
02:58 uh,
02:58 this wonderful,
02:59 uh,
03:00 program,
03:00 um,
03:01 which we value enormously,
03:03 and,
03:04 uh,
03:04 I hope,
03:05 uh,
03:05 you
03:06 find it beneficial as well.
03:08 Let me stop there.
03:11 OK,
03:11 thank you,
03:11 Andrew.
03:12 Crystal.
03:14 Hi,
03:14 everyone.
03:15 My name is Crystal Simone.
03:16 I am based in Nairobi,
03:17 Kenya,
03:18 and I lead the work and I founded
03:21 the work of the Nai AfriFem Macroeconomic Collective.
03:24 Um,
03:24 we're a Pan-African organization working on a Pan-African feminist analysis
03:29 of the economy at a macro level.
03:33 OK.
03:34 Blindness?
03:36 Hi,
03:37 everyone.
03:37 I hope you can hear me.
03:39 Yes.
03:40 Yes.
03:41 So,
03:41 um,
03:42 I'm F Kunikomba.
03:43 So currently I work with,
03:46 uh,
03:46 Lilongwe University of Agriculture and Natural Resources,
03:49 um,
03:50 here in Lilongwe in Malawi.
03:52 And,
03:53 uh,
03:53 I've been,
03:54 I think,
03:54 uh,
03:55 under the mentorship program for
03:58 both two programs,
03:59 the first one and the 2nd 1.
04:01 Yeah,
04:02 I'm ready to share my experiences for,
04:06 especially for the second one,
04:07 which yielded to successful completion of my PhD and I just graduated last Friday
04:15 in Rwanda.
04:17 Yeah,
04:17 thank you.
04:19 Well,
04:20 a big congratulations to you.
04:22 Congratulations indeed.
04:23 That's a huge achievement.
04:25 Well done.
04:27 Yeah.
04:28 OK.
04:29 Thanks again.
04:32 So my first question
04:34 goes to
04:36 Andrew.
04:37 You're right.
04:38 So if you could share your experience about the profession,
04:43 your professional journey as an economist.
04:47 What inspired you to study economics,
04:50 and have you always wanted to work at the bank?
04:54 How did you
04:55 end up at the World Bank?
04:59 Um,
05:00 so the answer to those two questions is no and no.
05:04 Um,
05:05 I haven't always wanted to be an economist,
05:07 to be honest with you,
05:08 and I
05:09 never imagined to be working at the World Bank.
05:12 Um,
05:13 but,
05:14 um,
05:16 So how did I end up in economics?
05:17 So,
05:18 so initially,
05:19 you know,
05:20 I was,
05:20 I grew up in northern Kenya,
05:22 um,
05:24 It's a,
05:25 it's a sparsely populated place,
05:27 uh,
05:28 one of the poorest regions of the country,
05:31 um,
05:32 and,
05:33 you know,
05:35 Went to school
05:36 by accident in a way,
05:38 uh,
05:39 but then when I ended up in school,
05:41 liked it and stayed.
05:43 And the,
05:44 the,
05:44 the first thing that
05:46 You know,
05:47 the,
05:47 the,
05:47 when,
05:47 so when I ended up in high school,
05:49 let's,
05:49 let's put it that way,
05:50 when I ended up in high school,
05:52 I really liked chemistry.
05:54 So,
05:55 so my goal was to become
05:57 basically a chemist.
05:58 So I,
05:58 I didn't know exactly whether,
06:00 you know,
06:00 to be a professor in chemistry,
06:02 a teacher in chemistry,
06:04 uh,
06:05 or just working in the
06:08 chemical industry,
06:08 whatever,
06:09 but that was the thing I liked.
06:11 I really liked chemistry.
06:13 Uh,
06:14 and so that was my goal,
06:15 the,
06:15 you know,
06:16 to pursue that.
06:17 Um,
06:19 but in the back of my mind,
06:20 there were always
06:22 these
06:23 things you kind of,
06:24 you cannot unsee,
06:26 right?
06:26 Like,
06:28 Um,
06:28 you know,
06:29 I come from northern Kenya.
06:30 My high school was in,
06:32 you know,
06:32 the central part of Kenya,
06:33 just outside of Nairobi,
06:35 and,
06:36 you know,
06:36 these massive inequalities and differences,
06:39 I just had to miss,
06:42 right?
06:42 You know,
06:43 I come from a place that is kind of isolated,
06:46 uh,
06:47 very little services,
06:49 and then you,
06:50 you come out and you have this
06:52 Beautiful roads,
06:54 wonderful farms,
06:56 you know,
06:56 these big buildings,
06:58 and these people are much richer than where you come from,
07:01 right?
07:01 Um,
07:02 you know,
07:02 so you,
07:03 you kind of see these inequalities,
07:04 they're like,
07:05 what,
07:05 why,
07:06 why is this happening,
07:07 right?
07:08 Um,
07:09 so,
07:09 you know,
07:09 I went through high school,
07:11 um,
07:12 and then ended up
07:13 fortuitously,
07:15 uh,
07:15 coming to the United States for my undergrad.
07:18 And then the inequality,
07:19 so first I see the inequalities between Kenya,
07:22 within,
07:22 within Kenya,
07:23 right,
07:23 but by region,
07:25 and then I see inequality between countries,
07:27 which is
07:28 even more
07:30 um stuck.
07:32 And so even while I wanted to be a chemist,
07:34 I wanted to understand
07:36 why
07:37 there is this huge inequalities.
07:40 Um,
07:40 so when I ended up
07:42 In college.
07:45 I took a class.
07:48 On political economy of the world.
07:52 Um,
07:52 so that was my first,
07:54 you know,
07:54 when I arrived in northern New York and,
07:56 you know,
07:56 some small liberal arts college.
07:59 Uh,
07:59 I took a class
08:00 in,
08:01 in,
08:01 on,
08:02 in political economy,
08:03 and it wasn't,
08:03 it was taught by um
08:05 Uh,
08:07 By a by a an American professor of Somali origin.
08:11 And um
08:13 It was really about.
08:15 The inequalities in the world.
08:18 Why do we how do we understand the inequalities in the world,
08:20 and I was hooked.
08:22 Uh,
08:23 and after that,
08:24 I kind of was gravitating to that.
08:27 So
08:27 I ended up not doing chemistry and decided I wanted to understand the world.
08:32 Uh,
08:33 I mean,
08:33 the world that I see that is,
08:35 that is this nagging question at the back of my mind.
08:37 I wanted to understand that.
08:39 So,
08:40 so,
08:40 you know,
08:41 so that's how I ended up doing economics and,
08:43 uh,
08:43 and,
08:44 and,
08:44 and politically,
08:45 you know,
08:45 political science in,
08:46 uh,
08:47 in college,
08:48 um,
08:48 and then,
08:50 um.
08:51 Ended up traveling one year in the Sahel,
08:53 West Africa,
08:55 um,
08:56 and that became,
08:57 that,
08:57 that kind of sealed it,
08:59 uh,
08:59 because,
08:59 uh,
09:00 you know,
09:00 I was traveling in these places,
09:01 I was living in rural areas.
09:03 Uh,
09:04 rural villages,
09:05 and I see them trying to make a living from
09:09 this,
09:09 you know,
09:10 these cash crops,
09:11 these mono crops,
09:12 and it was just difficult for them.
09:14 Um,
09:15 and then,
09:15 you know,
09:16 I,
09:16 I,
09:17 I decided I wanted to understand that.
09:19 I really wanted to understand the,
09:21 um,
09:22 the,
09:22 the,
09:23 the sources and the,
09:24 and the,
09:24 the reasons for these inequalities,
09:26 and so I ended up
09:27 You know,
09:27 just pursuing economics for that reason.
09:29 Now,
09:30 so that's how I ended up in economics.
09:31 Now,
09:32 having gone,
09:32 having done economics in,
09:34 in,
09:34 in grad school,
09:36 my goal was to become a professor.
09:39 So that was the goal.
09:41 The goal was to become
09:42 a,
09:43 a teacher.
09:43 I,
09:44 I loved teaching.
09:46 I still do,
09:47 um,
09:48 and,
09:50 uh,
09:51 wanted to become,
09:52 um,
09:53 uh,
09:53 an academic,
09:54 basically,
09:54 a researcher.
09:55 Um,
09:56 but then I got,
09:57 I got,
09:58 uh,
09:58 just as,
09:59 as I was finishing,
09:59 I got,
10:00 I,
10:00 I was asked by the World Bank to come and do,
10:03 um,
10:04 a short-term uh uh work,
10:06 piece of work on African labor markets because that was my,
10:09 I'm an empirical eco um labor economist,
10:12 uh,
10:12 by training.
10:13 So I came here to do some work around,
10:15 you know,
10:16 the labor markets in Africa and,
10:18 and,
10:19 um
10:21 And was asked to stay.
10:24 Uh,
10:24 and so I stayed,
10:25 but then
10:26 2 years later,
10:27 uh,
10:28 wanted to go back,
10:30 um,
10:30 to,
10:31 to the academy,
10:32 did some interviews,
10:33 got an offer,
10:34 and I decided to talk to my professors because I wanted to see what they said.
10:38 They said,
10:39 no,
10:39 no,
10:39 no,
10:39 no,
10:39 no,
10:40 you shouldn't do that.
10:40 You shouldn't do that.
10:41 You have more impact staying in the World Bank,
10:43 talking to policymakers.
10:45 Um,
10:46 uh,
10:46 and doing development.
10:48 This is what you wanted to do,
10:49 you,
10:49 you know,
10:50 so,
10:51 like,
10:52 that's how I ended up staying and,
10:53 you know,
10:54 in retrospect,
10:55 I've,
10:55 I've really enjoyed being in the World Bank because I'm,
10:59 I've done a lot of analytical work as I wanted,
11:01 but I've also had a chance to actually work on
11:04 real policy issues.
11:06 Uh,
11:07 so,
11:07 so that's how I ended up in the World Bank.
11:10 Hm.
11:11 OK.
11:12 So,
11:12 I'm gonna make you an offer you cannot refuse.
11:16 So
11:17 you.
11:18 I'll give you your dream job,
11:20 right?
11:20 We can trade places.
11:23 You come to Howard,
11:24 and I come over there,
11:25 right?
11:26 I take your place.
11:27 Yeah,
11:28 you know,
11:28 you've always wanted to be a professor,
11:30 so
11:31 I'm handing it
11:33 over to you on a silver platter.
11:35 So yeah,
11:36 so you can have,
11:36 we can talk about that in private,
11:39 but it's something to think about.
11:41 OK.
11:42 So
11:43 the next question is for Crystal.
11:46 Again,
11:47 share your professional journey,
11:50 why
11:51 you decided to study economics and
11:53 what inspired you to establish the Navi
11:58 Nawi Collective.
12:00 Um,
12:01 yeah,
12:01 like Andrew,
12:02 I'm Kenyan,
12:02 and I'm,
12:03 I
12:04 was born and brought up in Kenya.
12:06 Um,
12:06 slightly different history.
12:08 I was brought up
12:09 seemingly middle class,
12:11 and when I say seemingly,
12:12 I think
12:13 my parents struggled really hard to make sure we went to private school because
12:18 You know,
12:18 after the structural adjustment programs,
12:20 privatization is how you get out of things.
12:23 Go to private school,
12:24 go to private English school,
12:25 it gives you a better
12:27 um
12:28 chance at life.
12:29 Uh,
12:30 but my,
12:30 both my parents were business people.
12:32 My father was a beekeeper,
12:34 he still is.
12:35 Um,
12:36 so as much as I went to school with
12:39 much richer children than myself,
12:41 being picked up in
12:42 Range Rovers and Mercy dispensers,
12:45 um,
12:45 not the same for me.
12:47 Uh,
12:47 on the holidays,
12:48 my parents really valued work
12:51 and labor.
12:52 And so we were shipped off to work,
12:54 either at my mom's factory
12:56 or with my dad,
12:57 and with my dad was quite exciting because
12:59 he traversed the country with his beehives.
13:02 And so,
13:03 I got to see
13:05 the country in very many ways,
13:07 in very different ways from a lot of the people that I went to school with.
13:11 Um,
13:12 you know,
13:12 you go to a village and they're so excited,
13:15 and they offer you a chicken,
13:16 and
13:17 coming from private school in Nairobi was like,
13:20 uh,
13:20 that doesn't seem
13:21 like
13:22 something special,
13:24 um,
13:24 but it was that exposure that had me thinking very differently.
13:28 I then
13:29 went to university in Finland and Sweden,
13:33 um,
13:33 and that also really shaped
13:35 my thinking of inequality
13:37 and what that means.
13:38 Um,
13:39 I remember we used to pay €11 a year
13:42 for medical care,
13:44 for healthcare,
13:45 health insurance
13:46 to the government,
13:47 and you could go to the doctor as many times
13:50 as you wanted.
13:51 You'd have to pay a little extra if you went to a specialist,
13:53 but even then,
13:54 all the tests were,
13:56 you know,
13:56 available to you.
13:57 Um,
13:58 everything was centralized.
13:59 You had a Social Security number.
14:01 If the doctor,
14:02 um,
14:02 gave you medicine,
14:03 you'd go to the pharmacy without a prescription and everything was on the system.
14:08 I remember
14:09 wondering why a doctor or a surgeon would be neighbors with a truck driver.
14:14 Um,
14:14 that would never happen in my country.
14:17 But it also showed that it's possible.
14:20 It also showed me the possibility of a
14:22 society that wasn't so obsessed with materialness.
14:27 Um,
14:28 they could afford so many things,
14:29 and yet they would have the simplest Nokia phone,
14:32 walking around in socks and sandals,
14:34 where at home,
14:35 everybody was,
14:36 you know,
14:36 fighting for the latest phone,
14:38 have Nike shoes,
14:39 and whatever that is.
14:41 And so I came home,
14:42 I studied African studies for my master's in,
14:44 in,
14:45 in economics.
14:47 And I came home and my first job
14:49 was really with um civil society,
14:51 and that's been the trajectory of my career.
14:54 Um,
14:55 a lot in the governance space and looking at the constitution of Kenya,
14:58 then,
14:58 we were going through a transition.
15:00 And I would go to very,
15:03 you know,
15:03 informal settlements talking about the constitution,
15:05 and that really shaped
15:07 my political awareness.
15:09 Um,
15:09 I then had a job looking at World Bank data on health and education
15:14 and working on building a culture of data use both in demand and supply.
15:18 So working with county,
15:19 with governments,
15:20 um,
15:21 to,
15:21 to use the data to plan better,
15:24 but working with civil society organizations at local
15:26 levels to demand for better using data.
15:30 And I remember going to the western part of Kenya in Kakamega,
15:34 and I was working with retired midwives and with a project that
15:37 was looking to involve them in a referral system of healthcare.
15:41 And I went for one of their sessions,
15:43 and they said they would ask the women to come with a piece of cloth and lasso.
15:47 Um,
15:48 and I wondered why,
15:49 and I wondered if it was to swath the baby,
15:51 or,
15:52 you know,
15:52 what it was.
15:53 And they said it was to put under the woman,
15:56 and if
15:57 the,
15:57 the piece of cloth was,
16:00 was drenched in blood to a certain point,
16:02 they knew at that point to refer the mother to the hospital.
16:06 And I left in tears,
16:07 sort of wondering,
16:08 like,
16:09 A mother's life is determined
16:11 by whether the midwife has decided whether the piece of cloth is drenched enough.
16:17 Like that's,
16:18 that's it.
16:20 And as I did that project and brought it to a close,
16:23 I couldn't help but imagine,
16:25 you know,
16:25 we can fight for governance and,
16:27 and,
16:28 you know,
16:28 human rights and all of these things,
16:30 but if there's no
16:32 resources to resource these rights,
16:34 nothing comes alive,
16:36 and there's something
16:37 off with that.
16:38 And so I applied for a job with the Tax Justice Network Africa.
16:42 Um,
16:43 I was obsessed with this idea
16:45 that Africa loses almost $90 billion annually through illicit financial flows.
16:50 How can we?
16:51 It's more than we get in development aid.
16:54 Um,
16:54 and so joined,
16:55 you know,
16:56 joined that piece of work,
16:57 hoping
16:59 to make a contribution,
17:00 to make a contribution,
17:02 but also I feel the very local level work had me almost a little bit too depressed.
17:07 Um,
17:08 when your people's problems are in your face every day,
17:12 in that way,
17:13 it did something to me.
17:14 And so I said,
17:15 maybe I need to pause very selfishly.
17:18 Maybe I make a contribution at a regional global level.
17:20 Maybe I'll influence policy at that level.
17:23 And so I did that for a number of years,
17:25 and it was really interesting,
17:26 a steep learning curve,
17:28 um,
17:28 but I was always asking the question of where are the women
17:32 in these calculations of ours?
17:34 And it was always,
17:35 let's talk about the serious things first and we'll talk about women later.
17:39 Um,
17:39 and I was always very uncomfortable with that,
17:41 and so joined FEMnet,
17:44 Africa's largest women's rights
17:46 network,
17:46 and led for a number of years,
17:48 um,
17:49 their portfolio on economic justice and rights.
17:52 It was a little bit easier to bring an economic
17:54 lens into the women's rights space and the feminist space.
17:57 Um,
17:59 and that was interesting,
18:00 but what I found was all the progressive research and knowledge that we were using.
18:05 To influence policy and to do our advocacy work
18:08 was very Northern-based.
18:10 It was analysis that had been done by the Oxfam,
18:13 the Action Aids,
18:13 very global North
18:15 organizations or think tanks in the North.
18:17 And I've always questioned,
18:18 where is our analysis?
18:20 Where is the African woman's analysis of,
18:22 of our economic trajectory or history?
18:25 Um,
18:26 and so this wild idea came to mind and I sent in an application,
18:30 um,
18:30 for funding.
18:32 I quit my job,
18:33 and then COVID happened,
18:35 and I was like,
18:36 I have just ruined my whole life,
18:38 but it worked out,
18:40 and the point of Ni is to do that,
18:42 to make a contribution to a body of knowledge by African women,
18:46 especially African feminists,
18:48 who recognize that economics is not a political,
18:52 and it's not a historical,
18:53 and indeed,
18:54 it is actually very political.
18:57 Historical
18:58 and it's not gender neutral.
18:59 It is actually very sexist in its manifestation currently.
19:03 Um,
19:03 and,
19:04 and for the analysis to be done,
19:05 it has to be done by African women
19:08 who can analyze based on our history,
19:10 our current context,
19:12 our cultures,
19:12 our nuances,
19:13 our positionality in global economics power economic power dynamics,
19:18 and from that,
19:19 look up what possible alternatives for
19:21 economic governance and economics could be.
19:24 Um,
19:24 so that's what we've been doing for 4 years.
19:27 Um,
19:27 it feels like 25.
19:30 Um,
19:31 but we're growing,
19:32 um,
19:32 and it's been really interesting to work with an
19:34 amazing cohort of African feminists working on the economy.
19:39 Thank you.
19:43 Ms.
19:44 uh Finness,
19:45 it's your turn.
19:46 Could you also
19:48 share your
19:50 Professional journey,
19:52 what motivated you to study economics and
19:58 Why academia,
19:59 have you always,
20:00 you know,
20:00 wanted to.
20:02 Be
20:03 an academic.
20:05 All right.
20:07 Thank you so much.
20:08 Uh,
20:09 so,
20:10 um,
20:11 myself,
20:12 my background,
20:13 I think it's just now like any ordinary African child.
20:17 Um,
20:18 I was born in a village setup,
20:20 but my parents were commercial farmers.
20:24 But during my adolescent stage,
20:26 I think um 11 to,
20:29 yeah,
20:29 between 10 and 11 years,
20:31 I left the village life to join my uncle who
20:34 happened to be a young brother to my father,
20:37 who was living more uh more or less in um
20:42 Same
20:43 uh
20:43 more or less like peri-urban setup.
20:46 So,
20:46 uh,
20:46 I ended up,
20:47 uh,
20:48 started new life,
20:50 that is city life.
20:51 Um
20:52 then I was exposed to urban lifestyles.
20:55 So with my uncle,
20:56 my uncle by then was working,
20:58 I think in the late 90s.
21:00 He was working with the Ministry of Women and Social
21:03 Welfare.
21:04 So,
21:05 he was working with women in uh championing the women agenda by that time.
21:10 And so at home,
21:12 he didn't wanted uh me being a girl child.
21:15 He had all the support
21:17 um uh given to me with my brother.
21:20 And he didn't wish that uh if uh because him,
21:23 I think he was working,
21:24 he saw a lot of disadvantaged women where,
21:26 by the way,
21:27 he was sharing the loans and what the
21:29 different programs which were targeting women empowerment.
21:32 So,
21:32 I think he did a,
21:34 did a good job by empowering even myself for every time we could check my progress,
21:39 um,
21:39 my academic progress at the primary school level,
21:42 even the secondary school level,
21:43 so much that
21:45 I never struggled so much.
21:46 I had all the support.
21:48 required
21:49 for me that I didn't even repeat any class
21:52 because I think um I,
21:54 I received the best support.
21:56 I think having an uncle who was well vested in terms of women challenges.
22:01 He didn't want me also to end up uh in the uh
22:05 poverty and inequality issues which women
22:08 then were uh were facing.
22:10 So,
22:10 uh,
22:11 growing up after I think I finished my,
22:14 my secondary school education level.
22:16 Uh,
22:17 when the time came for entrance,
22:19 around 2000,
22:21 I had always wanted,
22:22 uh,
22:22 I really liked
22:24 science subject,
22:25 but I really wanted to be a nurse.
22:28 Unfortunately,
22:29 the night,
22:29 uh,
22:30 before the day of entrance university entrance examination,
22:34 I had a strong compensation.
22:36 By then,
22:37 around 2000,
22:37 I think
22:38 HIV AIDS was lumpened by that time.
22:41 And in most times,
22:42 I think some nurses,
22:43 um,
22:44 if they were not um very careful enough,
22:47 I think some could get infected with that during that time.
22:50 So,
22:51 eventually,
22:52 I ended up switching
22:53 the choice of becoming a nurse
22:56 to um
22:57 agricultural economics by then.
22:59 So,
23:00 right away,
23:00 I was picked to agricultural economics.
23:03 That's how I switched the career from becoming
23:07 A nurse to uh agricultural economics.
23:10 And I had no idea what economics was
23:12 all about or agricultural economics was all about.
23:16 But
23:17 eventually,
23:18 when we started the demands and all,
23:20 then I realized that's the hub,
23:22 because they all the economies in the world,
23:25 really,
23:26 these are the real issues which I mean,
23:28 this is the real profession.
23:30 Which
23:31 um exposes,
23:33 uh,
23:33 which is at the center of managing
23:36 different economies,
23:37 even at local individual levels.
23:38 So,
23:39 eventually,
23:40 I fell in love with the,
23:41 the new
23:43 Gala now,
23:44 in this case.
23:45 So I really loved the,
23:47 the,
23:48 the courses until I think I graduated and um I think I just um
23:54 uh stayed for a few years,
23:56 then I got master's also in Development and Natural resource Economics.
24:00 And eventually,
24:02 um,
24:03 started the finallyzing the PhD in now in renewable energy,
24:07 but with special other
24:09 aspect of socioeconomics of renewable energy.
24:12 But in terms of professional wise,
24:15 uh,
24:15 when I had completed my first
24:17 Degree,
24:17 I had worked for Minister of Education as
24:20 a secondary school teacher for briefly one year.
24:24 Then joined the Minister of Agriculture to work as an
24:27 agribusiness Officer where I worked with the different farmer groups,
24:32 association,
24:32 cooperatives.
24:34 Trying to promote value addition,
24:36 all this and also some policies which could
24:40 improve African agriculture,
24:42 especially from Malawian aspect as a,
24:44 as a country.
24:46 Then from agribusiness,
24:48 I think I joined,
24:49 I left uhm uh the public sector and joined the non.
24:53 Governmental
24:54 organization,
24:55 specifically,
24:55 one of it was uh
24:57 faith-based organization where I worked as um
25:00 programs officer responsible for
25:02 urban-based needs
25:04 basket because my,
25:05 my,
25:05 my passion was in the advocacy and lobbying for policy change and influence.
25:11 So at this,
25:12 I did worked with a different self organization whereby we
25:16 worked in terms of improving the basic needs basket.
25:20 So we can create making um
25:23 small surveys and
25:25 base the
25:26 looking at the prevailing economic conditions and make meaningful.
25:31 Recommendation to the government and I'm sure the government,
25:34 I think it was so far,
25:36 for some good years,
25:36 I think working
25:38 on the minimum wage,
25:39 which is in a little bit reasonable now.
25:41 Then from there,
25:42 I joined the National Assembly where I worked also as a policy
25:47 and planning officer for the parliament,
25:49 Malawi parliament,
25:50 briefly one year.
25:51 Uh,
25:52 I think there I used to work.
25:53 With the
25:54 members of parliament,
25:55 this championing these programs.
25:57 I think there was this African EU partnership.
26:01 We used to have those economic kind of agreements.
26:03 So
26:04 I used to work with those uh members of parliament.
26:07 Then I think by then,
26:09 I had a young family.
26:10 So I,
26:11 because it used,
26:12 it required for me to travel a lot,
26:14 I had to
26:16 Find for a meaningful,
26:17 reasonable um
26:19 uh option in terms of career which I could
26:22 manage young children and also my career path.
26:25 So that's when I think it pointed off,
26:27 um,
26:27 the opening of being a lecturer at the current university
26:31 came in.
26:32 So I thought of,
26:33 uh,
26:34 to settle a little bit down to manage my young family
26:37 and myself also.
26:39 That's when I joined the academy.
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