00:05 OK,
00:05 good morning everyone.
00:06 Thanks for your patience
00:08 and uh welcome to this session on protecting tenure rights.
00:12 We're gonna be talking about lessons from land,
00:14 forest,
00:15 and fisheries,
00:16 and then we're gonna also be talking about
00:18 water tenure,
00:19 uh,
00:19 and how it fits into this larger picture,
00:21 um,
00:23 and sharing some lessons from our expert panelists
00:25 who we're really lucky to hear from today,
00:27 uh,
00:28 and having some presentations on an exciting initiative being led by FAO.
00:32 To have a global dialogue on developing principles
00:35 for the responsible governance of water tenure,
00:38 so it's packed
00:39 and we're getting a little bit of a.
00:42 Of a
00:43 and then we're gonna know,
00:44 um,
00:45 so I'm just gonna go ahead and get,
00:47 uh,
00:47 started.
00:48 We have,
00:48 uh,
00:49 Ward Ansu is here.
00:50 He is a senior land tenure officer with the UN Food and Agriculture Organization,
00:55 and he's gonna be providing us with some opening remarks today.
00:58 So Wart,
00:58 if you'd like to come up,
00:59 thank you so much.
01:07 Yeah thank you
01:08 that's a bit of a pity that there's
01:10 so few people around,
01:11 but I heard from you that yesterday's session was,
01:14 was packed and and lively,
01:16 so I don't think it's a lack of interest on the topic.
01:18 It's probably just the timing and,
01:20 and the third day of the of the conference and people.
01:24 Yeah,
01:24 and the rain,
01:25 uh,
01:25 and traffic.
01:28 So yeah first of all thank you to to
01:30 the colleagues and to the co-conveners of this session um
01:33 I think this is a very important session in the framework of the of this conference.
01:37 The objective of this conference just to remind you is is to promote a
01:41 more integrated approach around land and it's it's really to position land and.
01:47 Around the debates of
01:49 of more global challenges and in
01:51 in this case uh climate change
01:54 um
01:55 so it's.
01:56 It's putting land to the center,
01:58 but it's also
01:59 putting
02:00 land
02:02 and the global challenges in the context
02:04 of what is happening
02:06 on these building blocks which are land and which are
02:09 water and other natural resources,
02:11 and that's why this session is so important.
02:14 The session is trying to promote responsible
02:17 water tenure,
02:18 of course,
02:19 but it's also trying to promote a more holistic and integrated approach
02:22 to natural resource management.
02:27 And so while we speak about
02:29 about climate change and the broader challenges,
02:31 we tend to forget these building blocks which are water,
02:34 which are
02:36 land,
02:36 etc.
02:37 and the nexus between them.
02:40 So just as introductory remarks,
02:42 I would like to come
02:44 back to 3
02:45 simple messages
02:47 that I take out of the,
02:48 the title of the,
02:49 of the session.
02:51 And
02:51 the first one is on
02:53 lessons from the land sector
02:55 and more particularly lessons
02:57 of the VGGTs,
02:58 so the,
02:59 the guidelines on the responsible governance
03:01 of tenure of land,
03:03 fisheries
03:04 and forests.
03:06 And if I understand well,
03:08 although this was before my time in in FAO and
03:11 I wasn't part of the initial negotiations of the VGTs on land,
03:15 water was present
03:17 but had been taken out.
03:19 I was told for political reasons
03:21 but also for for technical reasons and,
03:23 and coming to an uh an agreement and a consensus
03:26 on guidelines that would cover.
03:29 Natural resources that are so different
03:32 in nature
03:33 might have led to the VGTs never to be to be enacted and and so
03:38 very early in the process,
03:40 um,
03:41 they were,
03:42 they were taken out
03:43 so I think it's very opportune to,
03:45 to,
03:46 to take that step again
03:47 and to,
03:48 to look into water
03:49 and the land on your team in FAO that I,
03:51 I'm representing here is part of this process in any case
03:56 so.
03:57 Yes,
03:57 so learning from that process,
03:59 learning from this,
04:00 the process of development of implementation of
04:02 the strengths and weaknesses of the VGTs,
04:05 I think
04:05 is a is a good step forward to,
04:07 to start reflecting on what can be done
04:10 for,
04:10 for water tenure.
04:12 Just to mention here that
04:14 uh
04:15 last week
04:16 a contract was signed an FAO
04:19 together with CFS
04:21 to analyze
04:22 the strengths and weaknesses
04:25 and the impacts of the various
04:27 voluntary guidelines and they've chosen three voluntary guidelines,
04:30 the one on land,
04:32 the one right food to food.
04:34 And the rice uh responsible agriculture investment to draw lessons from these
04:39 in order to inform
04:41 other processes like this one on on water tenure.
04:45 But
04:46 learning from the land sector I think is also important here
04:49 because it will recognize
04:51 the embeddedness between land and water
04:54 and and looking into the water tenure
04:57 might give us
04:59 information not just
04:59 for water tenure only
05:01 but also to
05:03 how
05:04 to better understand how do we work on water tenure
05:07 in a context in a broader context of these nexuses
05:10 with uh land,
05:12 climate change,
05:12 etc.
05:14 So this brings me to my second point,
05:16 which is about interdependencies.
05:19 As you all know,
05:20 food,
05:21 land rights,
05:21 water insecurity,
05:22 land degradation,
05:24 persistent ecosystem decline,
05:26 and climate crises,
05:28 they are all interrelated.
05:29 These challenges cannot
05:32 be effectively confronted without appropriate governance arrangements.
05:36 That allowed to address
05:38 these complex complex interdependencies and the tradeoffs across
05:42 these natural resources and across the economic sectors depending on them.
05:47 And that's why I think
05:49 that compared to the VGTs on land tenure,
05:52 this one might even be trickier.
05:56 First of all,
05:57 land is very political.
05:58 We just said it with Chris.
05:59 Water is probably even more political,
06:01 but the politics of water is also across boundaries,
06:04 etc.
06:04 etc.
06:05 which might,
06:05 which might be tricky.
06:07 But it's also the tenure of the VGTs on water,
06:10 the potential VGTs on water or potential work on water tenure
06:14 will also have to be taken into consideration.
06:17 The interconnectedness
06:19 and that's where I think
06:20 uh a lot
06:22 has to be done.
06:22 A lot of innovative work has to be done
06:25 and
06:26 I don't think you will get much of the VGTs on land there because
06:30 the con the the natural resource but also the context wasn't the same
06:35 and today
06:36 I think the interconnectedness is as important as the work on water tenure itself.
06:42 Thirdly,
06:43 is on the work on tenure itself.
06:46 So many issues related to water are related to water and to its governance
06:51 as well as to the manage and the use of water.
06:55 Um,
06:55 and all this
06:56 is directly related to the ownership
06:58 of the water and the use of the water and the tenure rights.
07:01 A better understanding of water governance and water tenure is necessary to lead to
07:06 major transformations in the present development paradigms
07:09 and to accelerate the progress
07:11 towards sustainable and inclusive
07:13 rural transformation,
07:15 uh,
07:15 sustainable and inclusive land and water management and use as well.
07:20 The recognition of the concept of water tenure will
07:22 help to bring light to the above mentioned issues
07:25 and identify,
07:26 recognize and ultimately protect
07:28 all legitimate water rights in the broader framework
07:31 of inclusive rural transformation.
07:34 And I think we're all aware of that.
07:36 Um,
07:38 but despite this awareness,
07:40 additional,
07:40 a lot of additional,
07:41 uh,
07:42 efforts have to be have to be done
07:44 to overcome the challenges
07:46 of
07:46 not only being aware but to implement and and and develop
07:50 the concept and implement,
07:52 uh,
07:52 water tenure
07:53 to overcome these power relations in in the in the water sector
07:58 and to overcome the lack of information
08:00 to document,
08:01 to monitor
08:02 and to inform decisions around
08:04 around water.
08:05 And that's why as FAO
08:07 we are committed to engage with member states
08:11 as well as with partners like you
08:13 from civil society,
08:14 academia
08:15 and private sector
08:16 to push this agenda.
08:18 And with all these partners
08:19 we are leading now a global
08:21 global dialogue on water tenure
08:23 to discuss and identify principles
08:25 on the responsible governance of water tenure
08:28 through an inclusive and consultative process in relation with
08:31 all these other natural resources and in the context
08:34 of all these crises.
08:36 So I look very much forward to these discussions
08:40 which are
08:41 another step
08:42 towards or within this water dialogue towards
08:45 more secure water tenure.
08:47 Uh,
08:48 and I think
08:49 what I'm expecting from,
08:50 from,
08:50 from this discussion,
08:51 I hope to hear.
08:53 First of all,
08:53 how as the VGTs that I'm representing here on land,
08:56 how
08:57 can we accompany these processes
08:58 and what these processes of the VGTs have taught us in terms
09:02 of protecting legitimate tenure rights for
09:04 other natural resources and then the second
09:07 question is also
09:08 how a water tenure approach
09:10 can then facilitate
09:12 when implemented,
09:13 strengthening of a rights-based approach
09:16 and how this matters for sustainable,
09:18 inclusive,
09:19 and equitable development.
09:21 Thank you very much.
09:28 Thank you so much,
09:29 Ward.
09:29 That was a wonderful way to set the set the stage for
09:32 these complex but really important discussions that we're gonna have today,
09:35 and I think your indication that there's a lot of
09:38 work that needs to be done to provide the evidence base,
09:41 you know,
09:41 we'll,
09:41 we'll hopefully fill in a little bit
09:43 of those gaps from the work that has been done over the last 10 years
09:47 by multiple partners and FAO to really provide,
09:50 um,
09:51 uh,
09:51 insights into these connections that you were that you were talking about.
09:55 Um,
09:55 so now I'd like to welcome to the stage my esteemed colleague from FAO,
09:59 uh,
10:00 as well,
10:01 um.
10:02 I've got Sofia Espinoza who is a land and water tenure
10:05 specialist at FAO and who is helping to lead this process
10:09 um under under the FAO.
10:15 Thank you so much.
10:16 Or being
10:23 Hello,
10:24 yeah,
10:25 yesterday we started this passionate discussion on what
10:29 can we learn from the BGETs to the water
10:33 and
10:34 when my presentation come up
10:36 I will.
10:39 Tell you more,
10:40 but
10:42 Yes,
10:43 thank you,
10:44 you can go ahead.
10:48 Uh,
10:49 perfect,
10:49 thank you so much
10:51 so um.
10:53 What can I say from the lessons from the a tenor approach?
10:57 So first we have learned that um
11:00 all that is
11:02 that now we have a wider spectrum of rights.
11:05 We all know that there there is no only one right,
11:09 appropriate right,
11:10 but when we talk to water uh to natural resources
11:14 we talk about access withdrawal management,
11:17 exclusion,
11:17 alienation.
11:19 And we can go and the literature is
11:22 really extensive on how this
11:25 um from the
11:27 theory from the researchers to the actions in the ground
11:30 have help
11:31 protect and recognize local communities indigenous peoples,
11:35 women's rights
11:37 and so on
11:39 we
11:39 a tenure approach have also uh allow us to recognize that there is formal.
11:45 And customary rights
11:47 that even though if they are not recognizing legal and rating frameworks sometimes
11:53 they can be as secure and sometimes
11:55 even more secure that some legally recognized rights
11:59 and again the literature is extensive I know
12:03 for some faces here
12:05 that you are well aware of the and you're
12:08 also some of the people contributing to this debate.
12:11 And we have learned also that participation and self governance of
12:16 natural resources,
12:18 especially
12:19 with decentralization,
12:21 but also giving back the power to the people that own the natural resources
12:26 is important.
12:28 Can be more effective and even more cost effective
12:32 that some tiling programs for individual property rights.
12:36 This tenure approach for over 20 years now had led to a more recognition of
12:44 uh customary rights.
12:45 Today we know that there is 11% more land that is legally recognized for customer,
12:52 uh,
12:52 for communal land.
12:56 This being said,
12:58 then with all these background we
13:01 did endorse the voluntary guidelines
13:04 and we've learned
13:05 a lot uh a lot from these implementations,
13:09 especially when it goes to,
13:11 um,
13:12 global funding global alliances,
13:15 a lot of partnerships,
13:17 but we have learned also that even though is a voluntary instrument
13:22 this can become.
13:24 Um,
13:25 legally recognized in some
13:27 countries because some
13:29 they're just from file experience 43 countries have
13:34 engaged
13:35 in policy and legal reforms based on the principles of the voluntary guidelines.
13:41 We know also that multi-stakeholder platforms MSPs,
13:45 uh,
13:46 have led to some of these,
13:48 um,
13:50 reforms.
13:51 Today there are more than
13:53 20 countries that have recognized multi-stakeholder platforms.
13:58 Embedded
13:59 in the
14:00 uh framework of the BGDTs
14:03 and some of those are just for give you
14:05 one example it started as a multi-stakeholder platform on land
14:09 and now they wanted to include water
14:12 and more broadly climate
14:15 to engage in climate change debates.
14:18 This is the case of Senegal.
14:20 We have also the cases in
14:21 local platforms in Colombia for example and
14:24 Honduras that are also participating in.
14:27 Um,
14:28 participatory mapping of communal land.
14:31 There are
14:32 tons of capacity building material that all the partners are developing.
14:38 The BGETs have been translated in more than 26 languages,
14:42 and there is more than
14:43 500 local adaptations to the BGETs
14:47 in
14:48 many formats,
14:49 languages,
14:50 videos,
14:50 graphics.
14:53 All the formats you can imagine.
14:55 And we have learned also
14:57 that the BGETs have led to a greater achievement of the of gender equality.
15:05 Uh,
15:05 this just to give you some examples of the,
15:08 uh,
15:08 lessons learned from the implementation in the BGETs.
15:12 Thisspite all the efforts for this implementation we've seen as far,
15:16 uh,
15:18 with the partners were,
15:19 uh,
15:19 working
15:21 and with governments that this is not enough again
15:24 there is never enough
15:26 when it comes to natural resources.
15:30 Um,
15:30 this is not enough,
15:32 but it's been a big
15:35 step for the water tenure agenda.
15:37 Why?
15:37 Because the BGETs,
15:39 uh,
15:40 had,
15:41 uh,
15:41 a core concept of the BGETs is legitimate tenure rights.
15:45 So when we
15:46 talk about legitimate tenure rights,
15:48 we can talk about
15:50 other legitimate tenure rights as we talked yesterday.
15:53 It depends for whom is legitimate.
15:56 And these have allowed us
15:58 to protect
16:00 enhance the transparency and improve policy and legal
16:04 and institutional frameworks as I say for the land sector.
16:08 Um,
16:09 so with all this understanding
16:12 we have developed a working,
16:14 uh,
16:14 definition of water tenure that is
16:16 their relationship whatever legally or customary defined
16:21 between people or individuals or as individuals
16:24 or groups with respect to water resources.
16:27 This is almost the same as the first
16:30 definition of tenure that it is the individualities,
16:33 but this time is in relation
16:35 to the water.
16:37 Resources.
16:38 So with these all background
16:40 since 2012
16:43 when the VGTs were not
16:46 were excluded actually in the final negotiation of the voluntary guidelines
16:51 we uh found its partners still keep working.
16:54 And we have policy recommendations on water and food,
16:57 uh,
16:58 indoors.
16:59 There was an expert consultation on water,
17:03 uh,
17:03 tenure already in 2019 for those that are new to the topic,
17:07 please note that we've been doing this for years.
17:10 The problem is that we didn't have the background and the conceptual,
17:14 um,
17:15 frameworks to talk about water tenure,
17:17 how container relates to a moving
17:20 element.
17:21 We do have now an experts group.
17:24 Uh,
17:25 that,
17:26 um,
17:27 uh,
17:28 that this year reaches
17:29 40 institutions,
17:31 you're welcome to join the debates,
17:34 um,
17:35 and,
17:36 but the most important thing is that.
17:39 With all these results in 2022
17:43 we got um
17:45 uh the uh.
17:48 We got the recommendation from COAG to start this dialogue on water tenure and
17:54 last year
17:55 this was um.
17:58 This was um.
18:00 This was launched
18:02 in the UN conference and to the and this year we are
18:07 we are going to launch more activities in that regard
18:10 so with all this context I would like to invite.
18:14 Our panelists
18:16 to
18:17 talk more about this and how this
18:21 long road towards the global dialogue on water thing.
18:26 this.
18:28 Do you want to play the video first or no?
18:31 Thank you Sophia.
18:32 Um,
18:33 so you're,
18:33 you might be wondering who I am.
18:34 I never introduced myself in the beginning.
18:36 I was so worried about
18:38 all my esteemed,
18:38 uh,
18:39 speakers and panelists.
18:40 I am Jessica Troel.
18:41 I am a senior attorney and I direct the International Water Program.
18:45 At the Environmental Law Institute
18:47 and we have been working for
18:49 8 years now with our partners,
18:51 the Rights and Resources Initiative with FAO,
18:54 uh,
18:54 with EMI,
18:55 uh,
18:55 the International Water Management Institute,
18:56 and others
18:57 to really try to develop and,
18:59 uh,
19:00 understand and unpack all of these key issues.
19:02 We'll be talking
19:03 a little bit more about,
19:04 um,
19:04 our specific work,
19:05 uh,
19:06 related to community-based water tenure a little bit later on,
19:08 but right now I have the distinct pleasure of welcoming
19:12 to the front of the room.
19:14 Um,
19:15 our panelists,
19:15 first we have Astrid Jacobs de Padua,
19:18 who is the Minister counselor for Food and Agriculture at
19:21 the Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany in Washington.
19:25 Thank you so much for joining us,
19:26 Astrid.
19:27 I've got Srinivasa Svigiri,
19:29 and I'm apologize if I've butchered your name,
19:31 uh,
19:31 who is a senior researcher with the
19:33 German Institute for Development and Sustainability.
19:36 And I've uh got Dan Schuster Beasley
19:40 who is the deputy team leader for sustainable water and Food Systems for Energy,
19:44 Climate and Environment Directorate,
19:46 uh,
19:46 at the Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office in the UK.
19:49 So we're really lucky to have these folks with us today
19:52 and,
19:52 uh,
19:53 Sophia is gonna facilitate the panel and I'll turn it over to you,
19:55 Sophia.
19:58 Oh yes,
19:59 sorry,
19:59 uh,
19:59 we,
19:59 we do have a film that we're gonna be sharing,
20:01 uh,
20:02 from our colleague who unfortunately couldn't get his visa,
20:05 uh,
20:05 to be here with us,
20:06 which is such a shame,
20:07 but Guriraj Amarath,
20:08 who is a principal researcher with for,
20:10 uh,
20:11 disaster risk management and climate resilience with EMI,
20:13 the International Water Management Institute,
20:15 but we'll be playing that video as part of the panel discussion.
20:18 Thanks.
20:22 Hello again.
20:24 We
20:28 I see some people made it
20:30 their rain,
20:31 thank you,
20:32 um.
20:34 So thank you for being here.
20:36 We as
20:37 all
20:38 approaches from far we try to make it multi-sectoral
20:42 and so we want to have your own
20:45 perspective from governments to academia from civil society
20:50 online.
20:51 Um,
20:51 and I want to start with you,
20:53 Astrid.
20:54 um,
20:55 with Germany's substantial involvement in the negotiation of the BGETs
21:00 and it's significant contribution,
21:02 I know you can speak also from your personal,
21:06 uh,
21:06 experience now 12 years after the adoption of the BGETs,
21:10 how does the government
21:12 perceive the role of tenure perspective in facilitating the
21:16 realization of human rights to food and to water?
21:20 Hello,
21:20 good morning,
21:21 uh,
21:22 great to be here,
21:23 great to be back here at the bank.
21:25 Um,
21:26 I'm
21:27 at the German embassy responsible for food and agriculture,
21:30 so the last couple of years I was more in the
21:33 bilateral business,
21:35 but,
21:35 uh,
21:36 for many years I would was the head of division for
21:39 the food security at the German Ministry for Food and Agriculture
21:43 and so I was personally very much involved in the negotiations of the VGGT.
21:48 So for me it's uh really
21:51 a topic to my heart,
21:53 very close to my heart,
21:54 and um
21:56 I can only
21:57 uh.
21:59 Highlight that taking out water on these
22:02 VGGT was a very difficult discuss uh decision
22:07 but it seemed absolutely uh necessary
22:10 because we wanted to really get something done
22:14 and.
22:15 Maybe
22:16 to say
22:17 there is a cadence or there's a
22:20 timeline so we started with the right to food
22:23 which then was also the legal basis
22:27 for the VGGTs and then we try to replicate this with the rice and the others,
22:33 but I would say the most um.
22:36 Uh,
22:37 passionate discussions were really about the VGGTs.
22:42 I think I would like to highlight two points in the sense of lessons learned.
22:47 Uh,
22:48 the first one is
22:50 voluntary against mandatory.
22:53 We had really very,
22:55 very strong discussions
22:57 with.
22:59 Our civil society because obviously
23:02 and that is in my second point where I'll come back later to uh networks
23:07 uh to make these kind of things happen.
23:09 Um,
23:10 so
23:11 we had very strong discussions with the German,
23:14 um,
23:15 civil society
23:17 groups
23:18 who were extremely,
23:20 uh,
23:20 critical about
23:22 choosing a voluntary approach
23:24 because they said,
23:25 OK,
23:26 if we do that only as a voluntary instrument nobody's really going to accept it.
23:32 But in the end we settled more or less on the concept saying OK
23:37 there are always countries who want to do something
23:41 and therefore it's important to support them
23:44 and to go ahead
23:45 and others
23:46 who really don't want
23:48 it
23:49 they wouldn't even join uh.
23:52 Uh,
23:52 binding instrument anyway,
23:54 OK,
23:55 I'm,
23:55 I'm getting
23:56 already my warning,
23:57 um.
23:58 Anyway,
23:59 so I think
24:00 for
24:01 we were extremely successful because if you look at the net
24:05 time we needed for negotiations which were only a couple of rounds
24:10 and a couple of weeks we were extremely
24:12 uh successful especially if you compare that
24:15 to other instruments uh where the negotiations take 10 years
24:20 so that was very important.
24:22 The second one is really about building networks
24:25 so you only see those who are sitting in the room
24:28 uh and negotiate but there are so many more behind
24:32 and in our case I think it was very important to have some champions at the time
24:37 Brazil was really looking
24:39 into how to push the right to food actually it was with,
24:42 uh,
24:43 Lula,
24:43 who President Lula,
24:46 uh,
24:47 who went ahead.
24:48 And it was Mozambique who was one of the first countries to to go into this
24:53 but also to have um.
24:56 Friends of the chair who are really able to balance uh things during negotiations
25:02 but it's even more important to really get the civil society
25:06 uh
25:07 on on
25:07 on on board
25:09 and civil society
25:11 um
25:12 means not only those who are sitting in the CF CFS um
25:17 CFS,
25:18 um.
25:20 Mechanism civil society mechanism
25:22 but also
25:23 um
25:24 activating your
25:26 uh national uh NGOs
25:28 so we had a lot of um billiard playing I would say
25:32 um
25:33 playing over the board
25:35 because uh when one government didn't really want to go
25:38 our civil society went to the country uh civil society
25:43 so
25:43 it's really much more work to get these things pushed forward than that.
25:48 And on the other hand,
25:50 um,
25:50 it's on the high political,
25:52 uh,
25:54 high political end.
25:55 I mean
25:56 I remember when we were trying to push,
25:59 uh,
25:59 to get the VGTTs in uh G7 or a G20 declaration
26:04 which finally helped us to get it through the United Nations
26:08 General Assembly
26:09 so it has been,
26:10 uh,
26:10 approved by all,
26:12 um,
26:13 countries of the United Nations
26:15 that was very uh powerful.
26:17 And I think it's very important to
26:20 also see that we overcome these geopolitical difficulties
26:25 which will be even more complicated
26:28 um
26:29 but I think it's worthwhile and I'm happy
26:31 to um.
26:33 Be back support as uh personal on a personal basis outside
26:38 but I also know that there are a lot of passionate people
26:42 um
26:43 in IRI in the OECD who really would like to get this uh process going thank you.
26:50 Thank you so much for this personal and historical view of the BGETs and
26:55 also the tenure perspective and how difficult it still is to talk about tenure
27:00 and water but here with the proof that we can do that
27:05 um I want and talking about mobilizing the civil society we're trying to do that,
27:10 um,
27:11 for a long time
27:12 and for
27:13 that matter,
27:14 uh,
27:14 we do have,
27:16 um,
27:17 a video.
27:19 Hello.
27:21 Thank you.
27:23 Um,
27:24 that is,
27:25 um.
27:26 Our partners have shared these because
27:29 yeah for you know a civil society mobilization
27:32 we also need visas are becoming resilient.
27:37 Extreme drought is threatening food and
27:39 nutrition security and livelihoods in Zambia.
27:43 In March 2024,
27:45 the president of Zambia declared a state of emergency
27:48 due to the El Nino induced drought,
27:51 with 84 out of 116 districts.
27:56 Sorry,
27:58 that is a testimony for our partners in Zambia.
28:01 1 million.
28:03 Maybe we can.
28:08 Yeah.
28:10 So
28:11 enjoy.
28:14 Unlocking community resilience.
28:18 Extreme drought is threatening food and
28:20 nutrition security and livelihoods in Zambia.
28:24 In March 2024,
28:26 the president of Zambia declared a state of
28:28 emergency due to the El Nino induced drought,
28:32 with 84 out of 116 districts
28:35 and more than 1 million farming families affected.
28:39 Climate change affects everyone,
28:41 but it is often smallholders who are hit the most.
28:45 Climate change
28:47 has hit Monze District in Zambia,
28:49 in sub-Saharan Africa now more than ever.
28:52 We notice uh floods and droughts in most parts of our areas here,
28:57 and this hit the small-scale farmers,
28:59 which make up over
29:01 80% of the Zambian population,
29:03 and that's potentially affecting food security and
29:07 their economies.
29:08 Building resilience at community level requires an integrated approach,
29:13 one that brings together climate change
29:15 adaptation and disaster risk reduction strategies.
29:19 This approach is now more urgent than ever,
29:22 as we see the ever increasing.
29:23 Increasing rise of climate hazards and disasters.
29:26 We need to implement locally led climate action
29:29 at multiple levels and by leveraging multiple stakeholders.
29:33 The CGIAR Research Initiative on climate resilience,
29:38 climbers,
29:39 locally led climate adaptation champion Action
29:43 Grant Program is a good example of this.
29:46 Action focuses on interventions that are driven and implemented at the
29:50 local level with the involvement and leadership of community members,
29:55 organizations,
29:55 and local governments.
29:57 Climbers catalyzing community-led climate adaptation in Moses Khanzile
30:02 community through a community-led solar-powered borehole activity.
30:06 The good thing with this solar bowl bring here,
30:09 it is about the availability of drinking water.
30:13 There will be availability of
30:16 water
30:17 for our animals.
30:19 It has come at a very right time as you can
30:22 see we have uh experienced a lot of dry spells.
30:25 Bubatubuti jania mugatiga marembashibattu teogunotwanojikonawi dambeu
30:33 twanggaobenni cement mweno mui died at kwaura cement it wapangatuawiya
30:38 ute ngwambega hewida utuiya.
30:41 Bobobotumbotungawana muliba kiraimbada mulliba kiraimba.
30:45 These interventions are tailored to specific needs,
30:47 priorities,
30:48 and contexts of the community.
30:50 Nemburi is in chibo to maninkaba kira mbabatu hutula
30:54 madagayagujin chiratwa utariagulia nang tia traweyanga mapowe mugadeni
31:01 hulatira amapapaya tratia tradawe.
31:08 This is one example of how an integrated approach can
31:11 build resilient communities in the face of climate uncertainties.
31:15 Climate adaptation solutions must go beyond technology to consider social,
31:20 environmental,
31:21 and economic factors and leverage the
31:24 benefits of polycentric governance systems.
31:28 Unlocking community resilience by transforming food,
31:31 land and water systems can tackle climate change vulnerability.
31:41 Thank you.
31:43 And thank you.
31:45 To the partners that.
31:47 Make it so that the video was here and we can hear from
31:52 Zambia community again we can see how this polycentric and this
31:57 holistic approach can help actually because as I said
32:00 yesterday secure land tenure in the desert is secure sand
32:05 so that doesn't work for food security
32:09 um so coming back to our panelists now from
32:13 um a more academic perspective let's say.
32:17 I want to ask you,
32:18 um,
32:20 how is the analysis of,
32:21 uh,
32:22 uh,
32:23 water tenure arrangement crucial for ecosystem sustainability
32:27 and how can an assessment of water tenure can help evaluate
32:31 the benefits and the risk of investment in in infrastructure?
32:35 Thank you Trini.
32:37 Thank you very much,
32:38 Sophia,
32:39 and good morning uh to everyone.
32:41 Thank you for finding your way to this very difficult location and uh
32:45 still I see the numbers are good now.
32:47 So,
32:47 yeah,
32:48 to begin with,
32:48 uh,
32:49 responding to your question,
32:50 um,
32:51 yeah,
32:51 I think water,
32:52 freshwater ecosystems,
32:53 I think,
32:53 uh,
32:54 water is,
32:54 uh,
32:55 of course,
32:55 we talk mostly about freshwater ecosystems,
32:57 which are a house,
32:58 uh,
32:58 home for like,
32:59 um,
32:59 about 126,000 species of plants and animals according to IUCN.
33:04 And of course the sustainability of ecosystems
33:06 is important to the global communities,
33:08 but um
33:09 as we've been hearing uh
33:11 uh repeatedly in this conference also,
33:13 I think uh they have been maintained.
33:15 I think they have,
33:16 they hold
33:17 enormous uh cultural uh
33:19 uh significance and uh and identity
33:22 for the indi indigenous peoples and local
33:25 communities who have been maintaining them.
33:27 And,
33:27 uh,
33:28 but they,
33:28 they,
33:29 uh,
33:30 the,
33:30 the provision of these regulatory services of ecosystem sustainability,
33:33 which the world is,
33:35 is,
33:35 uh,
33:35 puts a high value on
33:37 is um is
33:39 um produced as a byproduct to their
33:42 cultural,
33:43 religious,
33:43 and traditional relationships,
33:45 multitude,
33:46 let's call it relationships as per the
33:48 um definition of water tenure.
33:50 And uh they're produced as byproducts to their um activities,
33:54 you know,
33:55 um,
33:55 as,
33:55 as someone was already saying that,
33:57 OK,
33:57 forests,
33:58 they don't visualize as carbon,
34:00 so
34:00 ecosystem services are something inherently implicit there.
34:04 And
34:04 the next point,
34:05 the second point is that water
34:07 is a fugitive
34:08 common pool resource.
34:10 And as uh as our keynote speaker put it,
34:13 I think property rights,
34:14 uh,
34:15 to,
34:15 I mean talking about water tenure is more political than,
34:18 than land,
34:18 you know,
34:19 so,
34:19 uh,
34:19 property rights to,
34:20 uh,
34:21 to,
34:21 to water are far more complex than,
34:23 than those of land owing to the mobile and common pool resource nature of water.
34:27 And uh well,
34:29 there's someone also I think it's also aptly referred to as web of interests
34:32 against the bundle of rights as uh as to what is used for,
34:36 for,
34:36 for land mostly
34:38 so um
34:39 that that means having said that,
34:40 OK,
34:41 the,
34:41 um,
34:42 I think many will agree that the conventional
34:45 approach of property rights based approach of uh trying
34:48 to govern water has seen a very limited success,
34:50 whether it is being to induce,
34:52 uh,
34:53 to improve water use efficiencies and so on.
34:55 And their intricate linkages with land rights
34:58 also increases the complexity further
35:01 to understand and govern this,
35:02 uh,
35:03 govern the dynamic relationships that we are all talking about.
35:06 And
35:07 coming to the third point now,
35:08 water tenure as a concept,
35:09 I think according to your definition,
35:11 it,
35:11 it really,
35:12 um,
35:13 is,
35:13 is holistic.
35:13 It considers
35:15 the legal and customary relationships,
35:17 customarily defined relationships
35:20 of uh of different communities,
35:22 of diverse communities with water
35:24 actually.
35:25 So,
35:25 uh,
35:26 I mean I can just,
35:27 uh,
35:27 just give you an example of,
35:28 of our uh recent study on,
35:30 on,
35:31 I mean,
35:31 which we tried to look at uh in the Ethiopian Awash region.
35:35 Where,
35:35 uh,
35:36 OK,
35:36 2 more minutes.
35:37 I see that already.
35:39 So,
35:39 um,
35:40 we found that the pastoralists lost their grazing lands.
35:44 Owing to,
35:44 I mean,
35:44 they've been losing the grazing land since the
35:46 1960s when the Awash National Park was established
35:49 and later on owing to the expropriations leading to the large,
35:53 uh,
35:53 national policies of,
35:55 of agricultural-led,
35:56 uh,
35:57 economic growth,
35:57 um,
35:58 initiatives,
35:59 and there have been widespread,
36:01 um,
36:01 expropriations of pastoralists and they've been enclosed
36:04 and,
36:05 uh,
36:05 and also bush encroachments with,
36:07 uh,
36:07 invasive species.
36:08 And other droughts and so on.
36:09 No,
36:09 but
36:10 I think it started in the 1960s,
36:12 but they just didn't lose their,
36:13 um,
36:14 access and their,
36:15 their relations with water,
36:17 but they also lost
36:19 access to water points
36:20 and river shores,
36:21 so which was actually never considered.
36:24 Of course,
36:24 um,
36:25 there,
36:25 and then the,
36:26 the modern approach of um uh
36:28 of issuing the formal water permits and tariff system,
36:33 uh,
36:33 they,
36:33 they bypassed the community tenure of,
36:35 of,
36:36 uh,
36:36 pastoralists.
36:37 Uh,
36:37 which was undermined,
36:39 but of course the large and state,
36:40 uh,
36:41 large state and,
36:42 um,
36:42 um,
36:43 commercial and state farms,
36:44 uh,
36:45 their rights were secured.
36:46 So it's,
36:47 it's usually,
36:48 uh,
36:48 well,
36:50 uh,
36:50 according to law,
36:50 I think customary rights were recognized,
36:53 but,
36:53 and they,
36:53 they were exempted from the,
36:55 from applying,
36:55 from requiring a permit,
36:57 but they could easily be undermined.
36:59 Even the,
36:59 for example,
37:00 the resettled pastoralists as,
37:01 um,
37:02 as small farmers,
37:02 uh,
37:03 um,
37:03 small farmers,
37:04 pastoralists who.
37:05 Uh,
37:06 were resettled as,
37:06 as small farmers and,
37:08 uh,
37:08 formed into a water user association.
37:10 They had
37:11 water storage structures,
37:13 but they never received water.
37:14 So that's,
37:15 that's to say I think it's,
37:16 uh,
37:16 it's really important to,
37:17 to really,
37:18 um,
37:18 look at the tenurial relationships of,
37:20 uh,
37:21 of different,
37:21 um,
37:23 Uh,
37:24 uh,
37:24 traditional users and so on.
37:26 So I think coming to the second point,
37:27 I think that
37:28 brings a good connection of why,
37:30 uh,
37:30 uh,
37:30 water tenure assessments is crucial
37:33 for,
37:33 um,
37:34 you know,
37:34 for,
37:34 for assessments of risks and benefits of different investments.
37:37 I think it's,
37:38 uh,
37:38 it's really important
37:40 because I think,
37:40 uh,
37:40 as we see that,
37:41 um,
37:42 uh,
37:43 there have been,
37:44 uh,
37:44 a lot of this,
37:45 there have been growing investments into,
37:46 into irrigation schemes,
37:48 especially groundwater irrigation schemes in sub-Saharan Africa.
37:51 And,
37:51 um,
37:51 and without a proper understanding,
37:53 I think going by a very,
37:54 um,
37:56 uh business proof of concept,
37:57 uh,
37:58 um,
37:59 way of approach,
38:00 you know,
38:00 and then without proper attention to the
38:02 kind of relationships multiple diverse groups have.
38:05 OK,
38:06 I'm told that,
38:07 but anyway,
38:07 just,
38:07 just last point
38:09 which I wanted to mention is that,
38:10 uh,
38:11 I think,
38:11 uh,
38:11 also in the semi-arid and,
38:13 uh,
38:13 and,
38:13 um,
38:14 arid regions,
38:15 I think it's really important.
38:16 Uh,
38:16 you know,
38:17 for,
38:17 for,
38:17 to achieve climate resilience,
38:18 you know,
38:19 rain-fed farming,
38:20 and,
38:20 um,
38:21 to gain,
38:21 um,
38:22 supplemental irrigation.
38:23 I think this is,
38:24 it's really important how water is being used.
38:26 I mean,
38:27 it's
38:27 not a very,
38:28 uh,
38:29 uh,
38:29 not every water user is a registered water user.
38:32 I think that's an important thing to be
38:33 borne in mind.
38:34 Yeah,
38:34 I think I'll stop here.
38:36 Thank you so much.
38:38 I know we can
38:39 actually this session is too small for
38:43 everything that encompasses water tenure and the challenges
38:47 of talking just even talking about this without saying put it in in practice.
38:52 Thank you so much.
38:54 Um,
38:55 now I want to go to,
38:56 um,
38:57 uh,
38:57 let's say to zoom out of how do we actually
39:03 take out in consideration water tenure.
39:06 In
39:07 for investments for example to see how water
39:10 tenure can actually contribute to a multi-stakeholder arrangements
39:15 and
39:15 can contribute to responsible governance
39:18 in this context of
39:20 multi-stakeholder discussion and arrangement.
39:24 Sure,
39:25 thank you,
39:25 Sophia,
39:25 and great to be here,
39:27 um,
39:27 and good morning everyone.
39:28 Thanks so much for,
39:29 for being here on another rainy DC day.
39:31 I wish I could just give my 4 minutes back to,
39:34 to Serini and Astrid to keep hearing about the really
39:36 interesting,
39:37 um,
39:38 research that's coming out and a lot of the stuff that's showing on the ground,
39:40 sort of the importance of this.
39:42 Um,
39:43 I mean,
39:43 with only 4 minutes,
39:44 I'm not going to go into
39:46 a lot of the stuff we already know,
39:47 but just to sort of place this in the context of.
39:50 I guess the urgency of what we're now facing,
39:53 um,
39:53 you know,
39:53 the Global Commission on the Economics of Water has recently
39:56 reminded us that by 2030 it's expected in some areas
40:00 that there will be a 40% shortfall,
40:02 um,
40:02 in supply,
40:03 um,
40:03 compared,
40:04 compared to demand of,
40:05 of freshwater resources.
40:06 And so
40:08 for me when we think about,
40:09 uh,
40:10 water governance,
40:11 we recognize that there has to be a,
40:13 a rapid and urgent shift,
40:15 um.
40:16 And I think water tenure is such an
40:18 important part of that conversation because what it does
40:20 is ensures that as we're having to make
40:22 rapid decisions and quick decisions to address this,
40:25 we are reminding ourselves that putting equity,
40:29 putting uh rights at the heart of that is absolutely critical.
40:32 Those are things that
40:33 we'd like to think wouldn't be missed,
40:35 but so often can be missed,
40:36 especially when we're trying to do things at pace.
40:38 And we know that climate change is only making um that urgency more,
40:42 more real.
40:44 So when I think about water governance
40:47 as,
40:47 as a whole,
40:48 I think there are kind of three areas which to me are,
40:51 are key to address,
40:52 and I think water tenure can play a key role in,
40:54 in,
40:54 in all of those.
40:56 Um,
40:56 the,
40:57 the first is,
40:58 and,
40:58 and,
40:58 and this is recognizing that,
41:00 you know,
41:00 the water crisis at the heart of it,
41:02 the same with the,
41:03 with,
41:03 with land tenure,
41:04 you know,
41:05 when we are
41:05 at,
41:06 at the very core of it,
41:07 we are facing governance issues
41:09 and we need to address those issues in order to be able to make progress.
41:13 And the first issue on,
41:14 on governance that I see is,
41:15 is
41:16 addressing a,
41:18 particularly in the water,
41:19 uh,
41:19 thematic area,
41:21 a historical weak institutional
41:23 and political leadership,
41:25 um,
41:25 and this is at all levels,
41:26 it's global,
41:27 it's regional,
41:27 and it's national,
41:28 it's local.
41:29 Um,
41:30 so if we want progress to be made,
41:31 uh,
41:31 to achieve water security,
41:33 our leaders must start by recognizing those political failures of the past,
41:37 um,
41:38 and owning up to them,
41:39 um,
41:40 and then looking at the lessons learned both from within the water sector but also,
41:45 um,
41:45 from outside,
41:46 and I think we were talking earlier just
41:47 about the importance of drawing on the lessons from
41:50 the VTDGs and,
41:51 and land tenure and being able to draw some of that learning into,
41:54 uh,
41:54 the water space.
41:56 Water tenure plays a key role in that,
41:58 bringing um some of those successes to light,
42:00 but also recognizing some of those,
42:02 uh,
42:03 areas where where further work is required,
42:05 and I think it's,
42:06 I think refreshing to be looking at this saying we're not starting from scratch.
42:10 We do actually have a whole body of evidence
42:12 on the importance of tenure.
42:13 Yes,
42:14 water is more complicated,
42:15 yes,
42:15 there's more things to be understanding,
42:17 and,
42:17 and it is by no means easy,
42:19 but we should sort of take solace in the fact that we are building already
42:23 a a a plethora of really interesting and exciting work that that exists out there.
42:28 Secondly,
42:28 and this has already been mentioned,
42:30 but I think,
42:31 you know,
42:31 can't be mentioned enough,
42:32 um,
42:33 is when addressing water,
42:35 the water crisis and thinking about water governance.
42:37 We need to address the historically embedded siloed approaches that exist.
42:41 That's both within
42:43 the water community itself,
42:44 but also thinking about other sectors.
42:46 If we want water governance to be inclusive,
42:49 then we need all the relevant stakeholders at the table,
42:51 and it comes back to that multi-stakeholder approach that Sophia you were
42:54 referencing in,
42:55 in this question.
42:56 Water tenure is key to that in its inherent nature.
43:00 Um,
43:00 but I'd just like to sort of
43:02 comment on,
43:03 on,
43:03 on a couple of things,
43:04 and I think the first is to celebrate some of the successes.
43:06 It's great that we're having this session
43:09 at this conference,
43:10 and it's great that there's the interest here,
43:11 it's great that there was the interest yesterday,
43:13 um,
43:14 not just in the water tenure focused,
43:17 uh,
43:17 sessions,
43:18 but actually in some of the other sessions I've been,
43:20 um,
43:20 attending,
43:21 uh,
43:22 I've been hearing water come up again and again.
43:24 And in the margins where I've been speaking to people,
43:27 there's a real appetite to say,
43:29 look,
43:29 we know this wasn't part of the VTTGs,
43:30 there are very valid reasons as to why,
43:33 but we recognize that this is an area that we need to,
43:35 to address and embed.
43:38 Um,
43:39 and.
43:41 I think within that context,
43:42 just thinking about what do we want to
43:44 see in in the future,
43:46 you know,
43:47 as a reminder
43:48 to ourselves,
43:49 which I always think is helpful,
43:51 in 5 years' time,
43:53 I think we would have failed
43:54 if
43:55 we had a separate
43:57 World Bank water tenure conference.
44:00 I think what we want to see is the World Bank land conference
44:03 with even more integrated
44:06 water tenure discussions across the board,
44:08 um,
44:09 and
44:09 an understanding of these complex issues being sort of more embedded throughout,
44:13 um,
44:14 uh,
44:14 throughout the piece.
44:15 So I recognize that,
44:16 uh,
44:17 time's up,
44:17 so just to,
44:18 um,
44:19 very quickly,
44:19 uh,
44:21 close and say that I think.
44:23 The last point I'd want to make is I think whenever
44:25 we discuss water tenure and whenever we discuss water governance,
44:27 we need to be placing that firmly within the context of climate.
44:31 I think that
44:32 we need to be thinking about not just uh people and livelihoods,
44:36 but this is about livelihoods,
44:37 this is about planet,
44:38 this is about nature,
44:38 and this is about the bringing together of all three of those.
44:41 And I think if we do that in a sustainable way,
44:43 and we,
44:44 we are integrating this across the broader pieces on forests,
44:47 on land,
44:47 on water,
44:48 on climate,
44:49 then we'll actually start to see the progress across all of those rather than
44:52 being able to see progress against any of those,
44:55 um,
44:55 individually.
44:56 Um,
44:57 I'll leave it there and come back to my other points in,
44:59 uh,
45:00 the further rounds of questions.
45:02 Thank you so much.
45:03 I'm
45:04 really happy to see you all so passionate about the subject,
45:08 so I hope the audience is as passionate as our panelists
45:13 because we're going to open up for some questions or debate for this part
45:18 before going to the second part that is more about.
45:23 OK,
45:24 I'm,
45:26 let's go for some questions now and then we will see how this goes.
45:30 Thank you.
45:34 Maybe let's take 3 questions and then back to the floor.
45:37 Thank you very much so much.
45:38 Uh,
45:38 my name is Chris Tanner.
45:40 I work for Morro in the UK and I also was an FAO for many years.
45:45 Um,
45:46 I just want to pick up on this point that,
45:48 for example,
45:48 past plus losing
45:50 grazing land,
45:51 losing access to water points,
45:53 it was never considered.
45:54 I think for a long time,
45:55 I know,
45:56 I used to work with a group in FAO that was very much focusing on,
45:59 on landscape management.
46:01 And systems analysis,
46:02 particularly in the work that we were doing in Mozambique in the
46:05 days when the 1997 land law was put together.
46:09 And looking at
46:10 tenure in terms of bundles of rights shared by many people,
46:14 if you do a systems analysis of how
46:17 different groups of people interact and use a big landscape,
46:21 you can identify a form of tenure which is very collective
46:24 and integrates a number of different people
46:27 and establishes their specific rights over water,
46:30 particularly
46:31 a village downstream of a water point that's sort of
46:34 owned by somebody upstream has rights over that water.
46:37 Because
46:37 it's within this larger landscape
46:40 analysis.
46:41 So I just wanted to make that point that this,
46:42 this kind of work has been going on for quite a while,
46:47 and I think FAO really needs to build upon that
46:49 and extend it into this,
46:51 this,
46:51 this challenge of how to
46:54 extend the notion of of
46:56 tenure rights to water
46:58 in a way which is also both politically
47:00 easier
47:02 if you can recognize the integrated rights
47:04 of a whole range of different stakeholders.
47:06 OK,
47:07 thank you.
47:14 Sir,
47:16 Yeah,
47:16 thank you.
47:17 Um,
47:18 I wanna come back to.
47:21 Uh,
47:21 to the nexus.
47:23 Everybody has said how important these nexuses are.
47:26 How are we assuring
47:28 that
47:29 the governance of these nexuses.
47:31 Is integrated
47:33 not only in
47:34 the consultations and the negotiations for developing the
47:37 land and your concept and the water dialogues
47:40 but also afterwards
47:42 in the implementation
47:43 of your water policy in a framework of.
47:48 Land tenure issues,
47:49 climate issues,
47:50 etc.
47:51 because
47:52 I,
47:52 I can see that during the negotiations inviting the other sectors.
47:57 Land or
47:58 climate,
47:58 etc.
48:00 Is an easy way to assure that these
48:02 sectors are present in the consultations and negotiations.
48:06 But
48:06 it will return into a siloed approach once,
48:09 once we get into the implementation phase
48:12 afterwards.
48:13 So,
48:13 I just wanna,
48:15 how do you see that happening?
48:16 How do we,
48:17 how do we assure that there's an access?
48:19 The governance of this nexus is
48:23 present
48:24 throughout the value chain of the policy development and in implementation.
48:28 OK,
48:29 we're going to take one more question if it's as complex as that half a question.
48:36 Thank you
48:37 Ruth,
48:38 thank you.
48:42 OK,
48:42 since Ward opened the,
48:44 the can of worms here,
48:46 um,
48:46 I'm Ruth,
48:47 Ruth Minz and Dick,
48:48 and I actually started on property rights working on water rights
48:52 and then went into land and was involved in the process of the VGGTs.
48:59 And so
49:01 part and part of me is really delighted to see this coming together,
49:07 but
49:08 um.
49:09 But also
49:11 I sort of share with Ward.
49:14 The
49:16 OK,
49:16 how do we get this implemented?
49:18 I,
49:18 I was part of the
49:20 trying to develop the operational guidelines for commons
49:24 in the VGDTs.
49:27 There was so precious little
49:29 there,
49:30 but
49:31 we had the guidelines.
49:32 I don't know whether those ever got.
49:36 Actually taken up.
49:39 I mean,
49:39 has,
49:40 has anybody actually applied those the women's land rights guidelines and all were
49:44 so.
49:45 I guess the
49:48 I'm excited,
49:49 but I'm also wanting to know who's going to use this,
49:54 um,
49:54 and take it up in what ways.
49:58 Thank you.
49:59 So I'm gonna give the floor first maybe just a small um
50:03 maybe to reply to the first question.
50:06 In fact,
50:07 we are actually looking at
50:09 all the information that is being created around land and water for pastoralists
50:14 and we are going to start uh water tenure assessment for pastoralists in
50:20 in collaboration with SEALs.
50:22 So that's going to be launched this this year just to say
50:27 this is only a snapshot of everything has been done.
50:32 And then I'm going to give the floor for the super
50:35 difficult questions.
50:39 Uh,
50:40 thank you very much.
50:41 Just from my perspective,
50:43 uh,
50:44 when we were negotiating,
50:45 so all these,
50:47 um.
50:49 Non-written rights
50:51 were extremely important
50:53 and we had to uh find a way
50:56 to be
50:58 flexible enough to bring them in
51:01 into the negotiations and
51:03 not to be too restrictive
51:05 so um
51:07 I think what we did was basically try to work on the
51:11 definition level
51:12 so to make it uh applicable as Ruth
51:16 just said.
51:17 And
51:18 uh
51:19 I think it was extremely important that we have
51:21 countries like Canada and Australia
51:24 and also Brazil
51:25 who were very much aware at this time
51:28 uh on on indigenous rights and traditional rights and
51:34 common rights
51:35 so I mean
51:37 now we are already a lot of uh years later so I think this is one way
51:42 to to look into it.
51:44 And
51:45 the second one,
51:47 I think it's really extremely important to learn from the ground.
51:51 Um,
51:52 so the,
51:53 the guidelines are guidelines
51:55 and what.
51:57 Uh,
51:57 I at the time learned was
52:00 that
52:01 you have to test it is there's always a certain trial and error with it,
52:05 and
52:06 here the same thing.
52:07 These are guidelines you have to ask those who are going to apply them on the ground,
52:12 uh,
52:12 is this something that might be working or not.
52:15 And there you have again the same thing you need countries
52:19 who are champions who really want to do something
52:22 where you can use it like
52:24 a lab or so
52:26 uh to to try.
52:28 Thank you,
52:29 I'm.
52:31 Yeah,
52:31 uh,
52:32 I'm gonna give the floor to the other panelists.
52:34 If you can keep your reply to one minute,
52:37 I would really appreciate.
52:39 Thank you.
52:41 No,
52:41 I,
52:41 I think I was also,
52:43 um,
52:43 intrigued by this question,
52:45 this question about,
52:45 um,
52:46 you know,
52:46 how do we follow through this governance of the nexus and then also related to,
52:50 um,
52:50 Ruth,
52:50 what you said.
52:51 I think it's,
52:52 um,
52:53 it's,
52:54 it's a very difficult
52:55 and a very
52:56 large and broad question,
52:57 but I think it's,
52:58 um,
52:59 uh,
52:59 it's really important to,
53:01 to,
53:01 to,
53:02 to understand the context.
53:03 I,
53:03 I think when we talk about solutions,
53:05 I think it's,
53:05 it's,
53:06 we cannot.
53:07 It's,
53:07 it's,
53:07 uh,
53:08 yeah,
53:08 there's no one solution
53:09 for all different contexts,
53:11 you know,
53:11 like
53:11 each country is different in terms of political context and so on,
53:15 but to begin with,
53:16 I think we can try to,
53:18 I think there's already an initiative of,
53:20 uh,
53:20 trying to,
53:21 uh,
53:21 draw lessons learned.
53:22 I think,
53:22 uh,
53:23 what you mentioned that.
53:24 About there's a new understanding of,
53:26 of,
53:27 uh,
53:27 summarizing lessons from these voluntary guidelines.
53:29 I think that would be a good step
53:31 to understand also linking to what you said
53:32 there's 500 adaptations of the voluntary guidelines.
53:35 I think it would be,
53:36 uh,
53:37 it would be good to understand who is,
53:39 uh,
53:39 using these guidelines
53:41 and in which context and,
53:42 and I think then.
53:44 Uh,
53:44 again,
53:44 you know,
53:45 uh,
53:45 as thinking as a researcher and analyst,
53:47 I think it would be
53:48 interesting to know,
53:50 uh,
53:50 how people are making use of these guidelines in different contexts
53:54 so that,
53:55 uh,
53:55 we can come up with,
53:56 uh,
53:57 you know,
53:57 tailor the instruments to,
53:59 to,
53:59 to,
54:00 to follow through this governing the nexus not
54:02 only does not just happen at the national level
54:05 and where all the sectors are present.
54:07 But yeah,
54:08 I could mention uh different factors which we found on
54:11 as responsible for like why does it,
54:13 why it doesn't follow through to the,
54:15 to the bottom,
54:16 but I think uh we can do that in a different session.
54:18 But I think this is a very good uh
54:20 uh starting point to understand,
54:21 you know,
54:22 what happened with the VGGTs and trying
54:23 to understand the contextual factors which led to
54:26 a differential adaptation and adoption of VGGTs in different contexts,
54:30 yeah.
54:32 And I'll,
54:33 I'll keep my response very,
54:34 very short.
54:35 Um,
54:35 so,
54:36 I mean,
54:36 first,
54:37 just in response to,
54:38 to Chris,
54:38 what you were saying,
54:39 I think,
54:39 uh,
54:40 absolutely,
54:40 I mean one of the exciting things about
54:42 bringing water into this discussion is,
54:43 you know,
54:43 it brings it to that basin level,
54:45 it brings it to the catchment level,
54:46 so that landscape approach is already looking at a
54:48 broader context.
54:49 It brings in
54:50 by its nature,
54:51 again,
54:52 a wider range of stakeholders,
54:53 and I think that's,
54:54 that's incredibly important and I think something that yes,
54:56 we should be building on,
54:57 on that work that's already been done.
54:59 Um,
54:59 on the,
54:59 the million dollar question,
55:01 um,
55:01 for which I hope you have your,
55:02 your checkbooks ready,
55:03 um,
55:04 no,
55:04 I,
55:04 I,
55:05 I,
55:05 I can't,
55:05 I can't answer it,
55:06 um,
55:07 fully,
55:07 but I think
55:08 for me what it comes back to is recognizing that,
55:12 I,
55:12 I mean,
55:13 we know it's by no means easy,
55:14 but at the heart of this,
55:15 we've got to be clear that
55:16 water is not solely a water issue.
55:19 And it's not solely for those
55:21 working on water to be resolving it.
55:24 And we need to shift to a mindset that actually water is a land issue.
55:28 Water is a forest issue.
55:30 And
55:31 it,
55:31 you know,
55:32 11 of the things that for instance,
55:33 just,
55:34 just sharing this,
55:34 just a sort of
55:36 practice,
55:36 I've shared with my colleagues a question.
55:38 Across
55:39 the,
55:40 the Foreign Office,
55:40 the,
55:40 the whole department I work with,
55:42 and I said,
55:43 You know,
55:43 I'd love for you to tell me how water is relevant to your work,
55:46 and if your immediate response is you don't think it is,
55:48 I'd love to have a half hour coffee with you.
55:51 And,
55:52 and I think
55:53 in terms of that implementation stage,
55:54 it's about
55:55 bringing that capacity building to others within our own organizations,
55:58 but even with the,
55:59 the,
55:59 the,
55:59 the partner governments that we're working with
56:02 to make water
56:03 truly embedded as,
56:04 as,
56:04 as the responsibility of everybody that's working on these issues.
56:07 That's the only way I can see
56:09 us moving from.
56:11 What's a very nice conversation about the governance systems
56:13 of the nexus to actually an implementation approach where
56:17 water and,
56:17 and all components are meaningfully integrated throughout that,
56:21 that er component,
56:22 but by no means easy.
56:24 Thank you so much and I know we can be talking about this for years,
56:29 but I invite you all to join our discussions.
56:32 We do have an expert group on water retainers,
56:34 so
56:35 if you want to join,
56:37 please do and reach us and please the panelists stay here,
56:41 but we are going to go through this whole discussion from
56:45 lessons to data because we're already building on a lot of knowledge
56:50 that is out there.
56:51 Thank you so much.
56:53 Yeah,
56:56 Working?
56:56 Yes,
56:57 there we go.
56:57 Just a quick round of applause for our panelists.
56:59 Thank you so much.
57:02 And Sophie Era.
57:04 Um,
57:05 so yeah,
57:06 uh,
57:06 this,
57:07 uh,
57:07 we'll try to keep this short and we're gonna open
57:09 it back up because this is such a vibrant discussion
57:12 and there are so many complex questions to talk about that we wanna
57:15 keep this going with the panelists,
57:16 so we'll hopefully have more time
57:18 to keep
57:20 answering some of those hard whether you like that or not I'm not sure,
57:22 um.
57:24 Uh,
57:24 but
57:25 really briefly,
57:26 uh,
57:26 my colleague Chloe Ginsberg and I,
57:28 um,
57:28 are,
57:29 are going to share with you.
57:30 Uh,
57:31 a couple of things.
57:32 One is
57:33 sort of the initiatives that we've been doing,
57:35 um,
57:36 to date to develop things like,
57:38 and I,
57:38 and I think this actually answers one of the questions as well,
57:41 assessment methodologies,
57:42 water tenure assessment methodologies
57:44 that are really able to capture these complexities
57:47 within a specific context,
57:50 whether that's the country level
57:51 and focused specifically on
57:53 indigenous peoples and local communities
57:55 or whether that's at a,
57:56 a basin level and really focused.
57:58 in on a specific group of water tenure holders,
58:01 but this kind of
58:02 assessment methodology,
58:04 uh,
58:04 that,
58:04 that we've all been working to develop
58:07 I think is one of the key ways in which we can kind of
58:10 make sure that we're tailoring
58:12 larger guidelines and responses to the specific context and findings
58:16 and we'll,
58:16 we'll,
58:17 we'll share with you some of the
58:18 overarching findings where we've seen similarities across,
58:21 uh,
58:22 some of these,
58:22 some of these countries
58:24 in just a moment,
58:24 but,
58:25 um.
58:25 Just to take a bit of a step back,
58:27 uh,
58:28 you know,
58:29 I,
58:29 I,
58:29 I don't wanna repeat what's been said already.
58:31 I think people have really brought up the fact that this
58:33 is really embedded in the discussion that's gone on for many,
58:36 many years around land.
58:37 And forest tenure
58:39 but to take a specific perspective
58:41 this has been particularly important in the context and and
58:44 and I know that our panelists mentioned this as well
58:47 of indigenous peoples,
58:49 Afro descendants and local communities and
58:51 and really looking at where
58:54 resource rights have been held collectively uh by these communities,
58:57 um,
58:58 and
58:59 that
58:59 the.
59:00 Concepts of land tenure and forest tenure
59:02 have been applied to these specific situations in ways that have been
59:05 very meaningful and have really unpacked
59:07 the special relationships that communities have
59:10 to these resources
59:11 and
59:12 defined this bundle of rights or this web of interests which I,
59:15 I love that
59:16 um
59:17 that are really necessary for communities to be able to hold,
59:20 manage and protect those resources,
59:22 um,
59:23 uh,
59:23 but also this is really the,
59:25 the advocacy that's been undertaken for the VGGT has really resulted in.
59:30 Uh,
59:30 a broader understanding of how tenure is a driver
59:34 of
59:35 equitable and sustainable development of protection of
59:38 ecosystems that communities who have stronger,
59:40 uh,
59:41 tenure rights are able to better
59:43 manage,
59:44 steward,
59:45 allocate,
59:46 and more equitably allocate those resources
59:48 and withstand,
59:50 uh,
59:50 challenges
59:51 to the,
59:52 to their rights,
59:53 obviously,
59:54 um.
59:54 So these developments have really strengthened the
59:57 position of communities and the women within communities
1:00:00 um within the global economy of land and forests and we we have yet
1:00:04 we're moving towards it now as we've been saying
1:00:06 but we have yet to do this really with water
1:00:08 and I think another uh uh another thing that you know I would emphasize
1:00:12 in response to some of the bigger questions about embeddedness and.
1:00:16 And and looking forward is
1:00:17 we don't want this to be just a water tenure
1:00:20 discussion we want it to be an integrated tenure
1:00:23 discussion
1:00:23 we want it to be looking at water tenure
1:00:25 as part of land as part of forests,
1:00:28 as part of fisheries,
1:00:29 as part of,
1:00:29 you know,
1:00:30 across many sectors,
1:00:31 but.
1:00:31 Um,
1:00:32 to do that,
1:00:33 you know,
1:00:33 we need to better understand what do we mean by water tenure.
1:00:36 I'm sure there's still people in the audience are going,
1:00:38 What is water tenure?
1:00:39 Um,
1:00:40 what do we mean by water tenure?
1:00:41 Um,
1:00:42 what are the rights,
1:00:43 because that was one of the key things that
1:00:45 prevented water tenure from being included in the VGGT
1:00:48 was.
1:00:49 That this is a distinct and unique type of resource,
1:00:52 um,
1:00:53 but,
1:00:53 but it is possible to unpack the the bundle of rights
1:00:56 that it that are held at least by uh you know,
1:00:59 communities in particular,
1:01:01 um,
1:01:01 that are important to them to be able to to sustain and,
1:01:04 and,
1:01:04 and,
1:01:05 and protect those resources,
1:01:07 um.
1:01:08 So,
1:01:08 looking from this particular,
1:01:10 oh gosh,
1:01:10 I
1:01:11 I.
1:01:12 Sorry about that.
1:01:13 That would have been good to have up that whole time.
1:01:15 There you go.
1:01:17 Sorry,
1:01:17 um,
1:01:18 yeah,
1:01:18 I won't go through that again and we'll share that,
1:01:20 but basically just what I said,
1:01:22 um.
1:01:26 Uh,
1:01:27 but I think,
1:01:28 um,
1:01:28 you know,
1:01:29 to fill this gap there's been
1:01:31 really incredible surge in research,
1:01:34 um,
1:01:34 and advocacy efforts over the last decade or so
1:01:38 to provide this more nuanced understanding of water tenure as a concept
1:01:42 to,
1:01:42 to clearly define these specific rights that
1:01:44 are most essential to freshwater security.
1:01:47 Um,
1:01:47 and to unpack
1:01:48 how water tenure relates to land,
1:01:50 forest,
1:01:50 and other resource tenure systems both in law and also in practice,
1:01:55 um,
1:01:55 and we've really seen evidence coming out of this work
1:01:58 of the critical importance obviously of
1:02:00 protecting all legitimate rights holders,
1:02:03 uh,
1:02:03 rights,
1:02:04 but also a really pressing need for both communities and
1:02:08 decision makers and I would include civil society as well,
1:02:11 um.
1:02:12 To really understand how these systems are actually functioning in practice
1:02:17 to either support or undermine
1:02:19 equitable access to and management sustainable management of resources,
1:02:23 and we do have some of that evidence now,
1:02:25 um,
1:02:26 so right now,
1:02:27 uh,
1:02:28 about,
1:02:28 well,
1:02:28 about 2017 we started,
1:02:30 right?
1:02:30 2017,
1:02:31 um,
1:02:32 my organization,
1:02:33 the Environmental Law Institute and the Rights and Resources Initiative
1:02:36 kind of took on this big question of how do we define these bundle of rights and then
1:02:40 how do we look at how countries.
1:02:42 recognizing and protecting
1:02:44 water tenure rights,
1:02:45 specifically collectively held water tenure rights of indigenous peoples,
1:02:48 Afro-descendants,
1:02:49 and local communities,
1:02:51 um,
1:02:52 and this work has been going in parallel with,
1:02:54 uh,
1:02:54 the incredible work that Sophia's been talking about you saw from 2012 forward.
1:02:59 You know that there's been this experts committee that's been founded
1:03:01 on water tenure to really bring together all different perspectives,
1:03:05 uh,
1:03:06 uh,
1:03:06 another methodology for,
1:03:07 uh,
1:03:07 looking at the national level of water tenure,
1:03:10 um,
1:03:10 but just to ground this discussion a little bit more,
1:03:14 um.
1:03:15 We thought that we could,
1:03:16 uh,
1:03:16 share some of our sort of high level briefly,
1:03:19 briefly share some of our high level findings
1:03:21 around two key areas.
1:03:23 One is this land,
1:03:24 what we call the land water nexus.
1:03:26 What do we know about it now?
1:03:27 And the second is sort of in particular,
1:03:30 how does gender
1:03:31 fare under this land water nexus.
1:03:32 So I'll turn it over to Chloe right now.
1:03:39 Thank you Jessica.
1:03:41 Um,
1:03:41 so as,
1:03:42 as you've already introduced,
1:03:44 um,
1:03:44 Rights and Resources Initiative and the Environmental Law Institute have been,
1:03:48 uh,
1:03:48 working together since about 2016
1:03:52 to,
1:03:53 uh,
1:03:54 there we go.
1:03:56 Uh,
1:03:57 to develop and apply a methodology that
1:04:00 allows for assessing,
1:04:02 uh,
1:04:02 the bundle of rights that is most critical for securing indigenous,
1:04:06 Afro-descendant local communities
1:04:08 and the women within those communities,
1:04:10 uh,
1:04:11 secure water tenure.
1:04:13 So,
1:04:14 after,
1:04:14 after a very long process of development,
1:04:17 this resulted in
1:04:18 the publication Whose Water in 2020,
1:04:22 uh,
1:04:22 which covered 15 countries and 39 different
1:04:26 community-based water tenure regimes which are legal frameworks
1:04:30 that uh that that are recognized by
1:04:33 the national laws and regulations of those countries
1:04:36 and the findings of that analysis were,
1:04:38 were really striking.
1:04:40 Um,
1:04:40 so first,
1:04:41 communities freshwater tenure we found was frequently dependent on
1:04:44 their legally recognized rights to lands or forests.
1:04:49 Um,
1:04:49 so this we refer to this as a legislative land water nexus,
1:04:53 um,
1:04:54 and this oftentimes does actually serve as communities' only
1:04:57 source of of recognized water entitlements in many countries.
1:05:02 So one example of this is in Liberia,
1:05:04 um.
1:05:06 Where,
1:05:06 uh,
1:05:07 the recognition of collective water tenure rights
1:05:09 is dependent on communities legally recognized customary
1:05:13 land and forest tenure rights.
1:05:16 Um,
1:05:17 tenure regimes with a land water nexus we found often provided
1:05:21 more consistent recognition of a wider range of rights to,
1:05:26 uh,
1:05:26 to community freshwaters,
1:05:28 uh,
1:05:28 and what this,
1:05:30 what this really means,
1:05:31 um,
1:05:32 is that communities can't,
1:05:34 uh,
1:05:35 can't.
1:05:36 Necessarily access or realize their collective water
1:05:39 tenure rights uh without the recognition of
1:05:42 the underlying or pertinent land and forest tenure rights.
1:05:45 Um,
1:05:46 that said,
1:05:47 there's also situations like some that we've
1:05:49 been discussing this morning around pastoralism.
1:05:52 Uh,
1:05:52 we did,
1:05:53 uh,
1:05:53 analyze a pastoral tenure regime,
1:05:56 uh,
1:05:56 in Mali
1:05:57 and there's certain critical areas where,
1:06:00 um.
1:06:01 Where that linkage is not necessarily beneficial um or
1:06:04 the best way of recognizing and protecting community-based rights.
1:06:08 So it's very important to be unpacking the relationships
1:06:11 um between all of these.
1:06:14 Um.
1:06:15 Something else we found is that the nexuses
1:06:18 created under national laws are very diverse,
1:06:20 um,
1:06:21 and rarely,
1:06:22 uh,
1:06:22 rarely,
1:06:24 sorry,
1:06:26 um,
1:06:27 oftentimes stem stemming,
1:06:28 um,
1:06:29 from land,
1:06:29 forest and agricultural and water laws,
1:06:32 um,
1:06:32 really a really uh diverse,
1:06:35 uh,
1:06:35 range of,
1:06:37 uh,
1:06:37 sources of law that are protecting these resources,
1:06:41 um,
1:06:42 and.
1:06:43 Lastly,
1:06:44 um,
1:06:45 it's particularly critical,
1:06:46 uh,
1:06:47 for the recognition of women's water tenure rights,
1:06:50 um,
1:06:51 because the
1:06:53 land water nexus quite frequently,
1:06:55 um,
1:06:56 served as the main source of those gender sensitive protections.
1:07:05 Uh,
1:07:05 so,
1:07:06 as,
1:07:06 as,
1:07:07 uh,
1:07:07 I began to mention,
1:07:08 uh,
1:07:09 women have differentiated knowledge as well as differing responsibilities,
1:07:12 priorities and needs with respect to water,
1:07:15 and these are really vital to sustainable resource management,
1:07:18 to health,
1:07:19 to food security,
1:07:21 um,
1:07:21 and these differing responsibilities with respect
1:07:23 to both domestic and productive uses,
1:07:26 uh,
1:07:26 is,
1:07:26 is critical for both their,
1:07:27 their homes and as well as for their communities.
1:07:31 Um,
1:07:31 and yet our evidence has,
1:07:33 has shown a clear gap between women's roles and their recognized rights.
1:07:38 Um,
1:07:38 so,
1:07:38 as evidenced on the previous slide,
1:07:40 the,
1:07:40 the diversity of legal frameworks,
1:07:43 uh,
1:07:43 that form the basis for the recognition of both community-based water tenure
1:07:48 rights and the specific rights of women to use and govern freshwater,
1:07:52 um.
1:07:53 Really highlights that there's a need
1:07:55 for improved harmonization across sectoral laws,
1:07:58 policies and institutions,
1:08:01 uh,
1:08:01 to support more integrated resource planning and management,
1:08:04 um,
1:08:05 and strengthen tenure security.
1:08:06 What we found is that,
1:08:08 um,
1:08:09 most often,
1:08:11 um,
1:08:11 the laws regulating community-based freshwater rights were gender blind and
1:08:15 just one third of the water tenure regimes that we assessed
1:08:18 actually,
1:08:19 um,
1:08:19 protected women's
1:08:21 specific rights to participate.
1:08:22 In freshwater governance with many of those protections
1:08:26 coming from land and forest laws themselves.
1:08:28 So,
1:08:28 it's really important to be looking at these
1:08:30 in an integrated holistic manner,
1:08:33 um,
1:08:33 but it can also pose challenges because that means that it's
1:08:36 not necessarily easy to identify these protections under the law.
1:08:41 Um,
1:08:42 so just to close by saying that,
1:08:44 uh,
1:08:45 forthcoming research from RRI and from the Environmental Law Institute
1:08:49 will further be unpacking the land water nexus for,
1:08:52 uh,
1:08:53 communities' abilities to use and govern freshwater and
1:08:56 how this impacts women's tenure rights in particular.
1:09:00 Um,
1:09:00 so we'll be drawing on long term data from
1:09:02 the Rights and Resources Initiative on both the strength of
1:09:05 community rights to lands and forests as well as the
1:09:08 gender sensitivity of legal frameworks across 35 different countries,
1:09:14 um,
1:09:14 and this will expand the available evidence.
1:09:17 um,
1:09:18 on how land,
1:09:20 forest,
1:09:20 territorial rights laws are protecting the tenure of
1:09:24 indigenous,
1:09:24 Afro-descendant local communities and women within them.
1:09:27 So,
1:09:28 with that,
1:09:29 uh,
1:09:29 I will turn over to Jessica.
1:09:35 Thanks Chloe.
1:09:36 I think that that really sort of brings home the
1:09:38 land water nexus and just how prevalent it is.
1:09:40 It brings home this idea that if it first of all,
1:09:43 the communities
1:09:44 are unaware of where these rights are coming from,
1:09:46 as are decision makers a lot of the time.
1:09:48 If it's coming from the land law or if it's coming from
1:09:51 the forest law,
1:09:51 they're not looking for water rights necessarily from that
1:09:54 perspective and that the water laws are not.
1:09:57 Explicitly acknowledging these rights that are coming from other sectors,
1:10:01 so where we have contradictions across sectoral laws
1:10:05 that creates a,
1:10:06 a,
1:10:06 a,
1:10:06 a,
1:10:07 a big insecurity source of insecurity of water tenure for these communities,
1:10:11 um,
1:10:11 and so this again just sort of really.
1:10:14 Emphasizes how important it is moving forward to look
1:10:18 at more integrated approaches and harmonized approaches across land,
1:10:21 forest and water in particular,
1:10:23 um,
1:10:24 but
1:10:25 you can kind of see how the how the data that
1:10:27 that's been generated and the lessons learned from this kind of work
1:10:30 really does
1:10:32 sort of
1:10:33 beg the question of so what do countries do next.
1:10:36 We have these water tenure assessment methodologies,
1:10:39 but there's also a real need for guidance and,
1:10:41 and I think this was where,
1:10:42 you know,
1:10:43 Sophia kind of started the day,
1:10:44 um,
1:10:45 saying that,
1:10:45 you know,
1:10:46 the FAO's Committee on Food Security has called for this
1:10:49 global dialogue,
1:10:50 um,
1:10:51 uh,
1:10:51 to develop principles on the responsible governance of water tenure,
1:10:55 um,
1:10:56 and that this is really starting to happen.
1:10:58 Um,
1:10:59 to date,
1:11:00 an actual like a,
1:11:01 a road map for the dialogue has actually been drafted,
1:11:04 uh,
1:11:04 and vetted through this water tenure experts group that we've talked about
1:11:08 as well as a,
1:11:09 a pretty detailed online consultative process,
1:11:12 and that draft is currently being revised to sort
1:11:14 of laying out exactly how this should move forward and
1:11:17 so your inputs today,
1:11:19 you know,
1:11:19 in terms of these key questions are things that we need to be considering
1:11:23 and it will be again available publicly for comment before it's finalized.
1:11:26 This is meant to be.
1:11:28 Uh,
1:11:28 the roadmap really is meant to set
1:11:30 forth an inclusive multi-stakeholder and consensus-driven process
1:11:35 that is aimed at fostering
1:11:37 global but also country level ownership,
1:11:40 um,
1:11:40 and application,
1:11:42 so it really envisions us having over the next,
1:11:45 well,
1:11:46 however many years it takes.
1:11:48 Um,
1:11:49 having
1:11:50 regional,
1:11:50 subregional,
1:11:51 and even national level consultations as well as
1:11:54 separate types of consultations for various interest groups or
1:11:57 stakeholder types that need to be speaking separately about
1:12:00 their particular water tenure interests such as indigenous peoples,
1:12:03 uh,
1:12:04 a gender specific,
1:12:05 uh,
1:12:05 private sector,
1:12:06 etc.
1:12:07 um.
1:12:08 And these consultations are really
1:12:10 going to be aimed at raising awareness of water tenure,
1:12:14 it's thematic elements,
1:12:15 and the relevance and implications for countries of the work that
1:12:18 we've,
1:12:19 we've described and other work
1:12:21 to build coalitions of support for implementation as clearly is the key,
1:12:26 uh,
1:12:26 elephant in the room,
1:12:27 right?
1:12:27 If is that actually gonna be put into practice,
1:12:30 um,
1:12:30 and hopefully.
1:12:32 Building on existing coalitions
1:12:34 that have already been put into place around land and forestry,
1:12:38 we really see this as an opportunity we don't,
1:12:40 again,
1:12:40 yeah,
1:12:40 we're not starting from scratch and we don't
1:12:41 wanna start from scratch because that would be
1:12:43 counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve as a more integrated approach,
1:12:47 um.
1:12:48 We're going to be,
1:12:49 uh,
1:12:50 identifying regional and stakeholder priorities and practices
1:12:53 to feed into these principles and implementation plans
1:12:56 and obviously e-consultations will be a big part
1:12:58 of this to make this broader in scope,
1:13:01 um,
1:13:01 and more accessible.
1:13:02 The principles are envisioned as non-binding,
1:13:05 similar to the VGDT,
1:13:06 uh,
1:13:07 uh,
1:13:08 and should be able to be interpreted and applied consistently with it both,
1:13:11 you know.
1:13:11 Existing commitments
1:13:13 under the VGGT and other international laws,
1:13:16 um,
1:13:16 but it's important to note too that we've
1:13:18 been thinking about this implementation question and really looking
1:13:21 at the stumbling blocks for implementation of the VGGT
1:13:25 because another piece of the process that we're envisioning is
1:13:29 to provide guidance on nationally accepted practices
1:13:32 and contrite and and to be able to
1:13:34 um.
1:13:37 In addition to sort of
1:13:39 the methodologies for countries to specifically
1:13:42 understand what their own water tenure,
1:13:43 uh,
1:13:44 issues are,
1:13:44 we're developing background papers on specific issues,
1:13:47 raising awareness and doing capacity building as part of the dialogue,
1:13:51 but also developing criteria for implementation and
1:13:54 monitoring as part of the process,
1:13:56 um,
1:13:57 as well as identifying.
1:13:58 Strategic actions with countries as partners
1:14:01 and with civil society and with communities
1:14:03 um and
1:14:05 and envision
1:14:06 additional supporting documents
1:14:08 that can orient countries and other stakeholders
1:14:11 in
1:14:11 diagnosing and addressing gaps that are specific to their situation around,
1:14:16 uh,
1:14:17 the responsible governance of of water tenure.
1:14:21 Oh,
1:14:21 it's already up.
1:14:22 OK,
1:14:22 um,
1:14:23 so what's next?
1:14:24 And,
1:14:24 and this is important because we want your participation in what's next,
1:14:28 um,
1:14:28 what's next is the FAO,
1:14:31 um,
1:14:32 is currently under with German government funding,
1:14:35 uh,
1:14:35 launching the second half of a project that started.
1:14:39 3 years ago
1:14:41 Um,
1:14:42 called ScaleW,
1:14:43 um,
1:14:44 and under this,
1:14:45 under this project we'll be,
1:14:47 uh,
1:14:47 finalizing the roadmap for the global dialogue,
1:14:49 and again we'll have public consultation,
1:14:51 uh,
1:14:52 for that.
1:14:53 We'll be developing these thematic issue papers on issues like
1:14:56 climate,
1:14:56 uh,
1:14:57 and water tenure or
1:14:58 gender specific questions around water tenure,
1:15:01 um,
1:15:02 and,
1:15:02 and many others.
1:15:03 We'll be refining the existing assessment methodologies,
1:15:06 um,
1:15:07 and applying them in two additional countries,
1:15:09 Colombia and Thailand.
1:15:10 Um,
1:15:11 and then we do have funding to start the process,
1:15:14 uh,
1:15:14 and hold two regional consultations
1:15:16 in Asia and Latin America,
1:15:18 two national in those same countries,
1:15:20 and one stakeholder specific consultation focused
1:15:23 on these questions around pastoralists,
1:15:25 um,
1:15:25 in West Africa with ECOWAS,
1:15:27 um.
1:15:30 There's gonna be a lot of different ways in which you can engage.
1:15:33 You can join the experts committee,
1:15:34 um,
1:15:35 and,
1:15:35 and really be heavily involved or as involved as you'd like to be,
1:15:38 um,
1:15:39 in terms of informing what thematic issues are,
1:15:42 are,
1:15:42 are critical and developing these background papers or having input into them,
1:15:46 um,
1:15:47 and,
1:15:47 and really influencing the road map,
1:15:49 um.
1:15:50 There's also uh a real need for fostering
1:15:54 partnerships across not just UN agencies but with
1:15:56 countries and you were talking about champions.
1:15:58 I think that that's a really critical aspect for us to be identifying
1:16:02 which countries are really want to take this forward and how do we
1:16:05 how do we support them as champions.
1:16:06 of this work and we have some
1:16:07 uh that we're already working with but really to um to push that forward
1:16:12 um and then this has to go through
1:16:13 a political process for redoing review and endorsement as
1:16:16 the people who worked on the VGDT understand
1:16:18 that's a can be a long and onerous process
1:16:21 um.
1:16:22 But,
1:16:22 but we already have the basis for it under UFO,
1:16:25 uh,
1:16:26 FAO's,
1:16:27 um,
1:16:27 commitment to,
1:16:28 to sponsoring this process and to pushing it through its own political,
1:16:31 um,
1:16:32 agencies as,
1:16:33 as was done with the VGGT.
1:16:35 So I think the,
1:16:36 the ultimate,
1:16:37 um,
1:16:37 message is we really want you to join the process.
1:16:39 This isn't a water sector process.
1:16:41 It's a
1:16:42 multi-sectoral process that we really wanna see happen
1:16:44 moving forward and it's exciting that it,
1:16:46 that it's actually happening,
1:16:47 um.
1:16:48 And that those publications you saw in the background and sort
1:16:51 of the evidence we're happy to share with anyone who's interested
1:16:54 um and and to continue these discussions but
1:16:57 for now I kind of want to throw it back we have how many minutes left?
1:17:02 We have 8 minutes left.
1:17:03 We have 8 minutes left,
1:17:04 so I wanna turn it back over to the audience for the panelists or for us,
1:17:08 for anyone,
1:17:09 um,
1:17:09 to ask any additional questions or share
1:17:12 your,
1:17:12 uh,
1:17:13 thoughts on some of the issues that have been raised.
1:17:20 We've got
1:17:21 2.
1:17:35 Hi,
1:17:35 uh,
1:17:36 thank you.
1:17:36 My name is Ishan,
1:17:38 and I'm from India.
1:17:40 Uh,
1:17:41 just wanted to add
1:17:42 one element
1:17:43 in the discussion of water tenure.
1:17:46 If,
1:17:46 uh,
1:17:47 we have been feeling that,
1:17:49 uh,
1:17:49 when we discuss about water rights,
1:17:52 uh,
1:17:53 we also need to discuss
1:17:55 that the people who,
1:17:57 uh,
1:17:58 uh,
1:17:58 basically,
1:17:59 for whom we are talking about water rights.
1:18:01 have a role to play
1:18:03 in which freshwater
1:18:05 bodies of freshwater ecosystems operate,
1:18:08 and
1:18:09 they have a role to play in building those
1:18:12 ecosystems
1:18:13 or
1:18:15 and helping them in supplying ecosystem services regularly.
1:18:19 So I'll give one small example.
1:18:22 If you go to any stream in India,
1:18:25 small 1st order,
1:18:26 2nd order stream
1:18:27 of water,
1:18:28 you would find fig trees
1:18:30 or
1:18:32 Taminalia species trees
1:18:34 along the river.
1:18:36 We don't know who has planted them,
1:18:38 but the nutrition from those trees that falls into the
1:18:41 river
1:18:42 contributes to the fish
1:18:45 and also nutrition to the
1:18:48 lands that are dependent on that water for irrigation.
1:18:52 So,
1:18:53 uh,
1:18:53 the point that I'm making is that,
1:18:55 uh,
1:18:56 it's,
1:18:56 uh,
1:18:57 uh,
1:18:57 along with the rights,
1:18:58 what
1:18:59 makes people earn the rights
1:19:01 is also an interesting argument to make
1:19:05 that helps give it more teeth,
1:19:08 the discussion about tenure,
1:19:09 uh,
1:19:10 besides the argument of,
1:19:12 uh,
1:19:12 equity
1:19:13 and,
1:19:13 and,
1:19:14 and,
1:19:14 uh,
1:19:14 uh,
1:19:16 uh,
1:19:16 and the entitlement,
1:19:18 uh,
1:19:18 kind of uh thinking.
1:19:20 I also wanted to talk about this small alliance that
1:19:23 we are doing Alliance for freshwater ecosystem conservation in India,
1:19:27 which seems to be very aligned with what you are thinking.
1:19:30 Maybe we can
1:19:31 uh uh see what are the commonalities.
1:19:35 Wonderful thank you so much,
1:19:36 partners.
1:19:37 I love this.
1:19:38 Um,
1:19:39 no,
1:19:39 I,
1:19:39 I would completely agree with you that the
1:19:41 question of rights but also responsibilities is,
1:19:44 is a key aspect of defining
1:19:46 the,
1:19:46 the web of interests of what that's around water tenure,
1:19:49 um.
1:19:50 We had another question
1:19:51 up front.
1:19:57 And then
1:19:59 yeah.
1:20:01 Thank you very much.
1:20:02 I don't want to dominate the,
1:20:03 the question session,
1:20:04 but I just want to make an observation really that we
1:20:07 might be falling into a bit of an echo chamber here at some point.
1:20:11 I think one lesson we need to draw from the VGGT process is that along those years of
1:20:17 2012 to the current day,
1:20:20 there have been many programs around the world pushing individual titling of land.
1:20:24 And that serves the interests of a particular economic model,
1:20:27 which is the capitalist neoliberal model,
1:20:29 which has been causing
1:20:31 climate change issues in the first place.
1:20:33 Um,
1:20:34 and I think the,
1:20:35 the,
1:20:35 the assumption that,
1:20:36 um,
1:20:37 you know,
1:20:37 we,
1:20:37 we have made lots of progress in terms of customary collective rights and so on,
1:20:41 but we could have made a lot more.
1:20:43 There's been major opposition to this from governments
1:20:45 and from interest groups and so on.
1:20:47 And
1:20:47 this political economy,
1:20:48 I think,
1:20:49 is central to the,
1:20:50 the challenge right now,
1:20:52 both in terms of the continuing work with indigenous land rights
1:20:55 and also now with this question of,
1:20:57 of water tenure.
1:20:58 Um,
1:20:59 I mean,
1:20:59 we've got
1:21:00 tightening programs in Thailand,
1:21:01 Ethiopia,
1:21:02 Rwanda,
1:21:03 Indonesia,
1:21:04 all backed by the World Bank,
1:21:05 all backed by the British government
1:21:07 and other major players.
1:21:09 So there is a distinct contradiction here which we need to be well aware of.
1:21:13 OK,
1:21:13 thank you.
1:21:15 Thank you.
1:21:16 Do we have any other questions?
1:21:17 And then I actually wanna maybe
1:21:19 recast that as a bit of a question for our panelists to have a last word.
1:21:26 Yeah,
1:21:27 so I,
1:21:28 I think,
1:21:28 I mean I think what you raise is,
1:21:29 is a,
1:21:30 is a critical,
1:21:30 another critical and very difficult issue
1:21:33 around,
1:21:33 uh,
1:21:34 you know,
1:21:34 sort of overcoming vested interests as we,
1:21:36 as we move forward and really trying to,
1:21:38 uh,
1:21:39 make this a multi-stakeholder process of buy-in from the people who might
1:21:42 oppose effective implementation.
1:21:45 Uh,
1:21:45 for equitable outcomes,
1:21:47 um,
1:21:47 so I would turn it over to the panelists and say,
1:21:50 you know,
1:21:50 do you have thoughts on,
1:21:51 on
1:21:52 critical
1:21:53 mechanisms for us,
1:21:54 you know,
1:21:54 lessons learned from the VGDT or
1:21:57 other,
1:21:57 uh,
1:21:58 recommendations on how we can overcome
1:22:00 some of these things.
1:22:04 I mean,
1:22:08 Political economy is always key and I mean I'm really glad that we have
1:22:14 all these knowledge that FAO is the hub where these kind of things are
1:22:20 collected
1:22:21 and
1:22:21 to use this as a kind of toolbox
1:22:24 to really
1:22:25 uh help
1:22:27 to define principles and.
1:22:29 And I mean we're talking about uh big investments um big big players
1:22:36 and it's always
1:22:38 difficult to get this within the political
1:22:41 um.
1:22:44 To,
1:22:44 to,
1:22:45 to bring it,
1:22:45 uh,
1:22:46 to fruition,
1:22:47 I think the only way is to really have a multi-stakeholder,
1:22:50 um.
1:22:52 Participation and as I said
1:22:54 uh during the VGTT we had at some points uh several situations
1:23:00 where there were some interests who try to push a government in 11.
1:23:06 Uh,
1:23:07 direction or the other
1:23:09 and the thing what
1:23:11 I thought was really extremely helpful
1:23:14 was organizing civil society
1:23:16 not just at the Rome level
1:23:18 but really also at the national levels and bring their
1:23:22 um
1:23:23 players uh into
1:23:25 into it.
1:23:26 I mean these are is the play of um
1:23:29 big
1:23:30 interest all
1:23:31 all over and we we try to
1:23:34 discuss.
1:23:35 It and bring it into a shape.
1:23:37 Thank you.
1:23:39 Uh,
1:23:39 go ahead,
1:23:40 Jeanie.
1:23:40 Yeah,
1:23:41 if,
1:23:41 if you,
1:23:41 I'm sorry,
1:23:42 I know we only have a couple minutes left to the session.
1:23:44 Yeah,
1:23:44 2 minutes.
1:23:45 Sorry guys,
1:23:46 I think,
1:23:47 uh,
1:23:47 it's all,
1:23:48 it's all boiling down to this question of political economy and,
1:23:51 uh,
1:23:51 yeah,
1:23:52 um,
1:23:52 you can have a wonderful guideline and then implementation
1:23:55 guides of all these guidelines and so on,
1:23:57 but I mean they're only as good as,
1:23:59 um,
1:23:59 you know,
1:23:59 they're
1:24:00 being implemented on the ground.
1:24:01 I mean,
1:24:02 otherwise they just stay on paper.
1:24:03 And of course,
1:24:04 uh,
1:24:04 the political economy,
1:24:06 um,
1:24:06 factors are,
1:24:07 are,
1:24:07 are really important.
1:24:08 I mean,
1:24:09 of course
1:24:09 this,
1:24:10 uh,
1:24:10 multi-stakeholder platforms and civil societies,
1:24:12 they don't,
1:24:13 I mean,
1:24:14 it's not a uniform or homogeneous picture how they're being mobilized,
1:24:17 how,
1:24:17 um,
1:24:18 I think it's very much dependent on this,
1:24:20 uh,
1:24:21 political
1:24:22 institutional context and
1:24:23 would be repeating myself.
1:24:25 So I think a good starting step is.
1:24:27 To really,
1:24:28 uh,
1:24:28 put some concerted efforts to draw lessons,
1:24:30 I think from the decade of,
1:24:32 uh,
1:24:32 experience of implementing the VGGTs and
1:24:35 looking at
1:24:37 how they have been modified,
1:24:38 who is using it,
1:24:39 how they're using it,
1:24:40 and what factors are,
1:24:41 are all the political economy factors are contributing
1:24:44 to how they're using it and what are the outcomes and,
1:24:47 uh,
1:24:47 in terms of different,
1:24:48 uh,
1:24:49 ecological,
1:24:50 uh,
1:24:50 social and economic outcomes,
1:24:53 uh,
1:24:53 and,
1:24:54 and,
1:24:54 and then.
1:24:55 And maybe I think it's also time to revisit and then rethink
1:24:58 and integrate all the missing elements of water and so on into
1:25:02 uh into the into the existing ones and also take lessons from other
1:25:07 other works like the commoning exercises.
1:25:09 I think uh
1:25:10 there's a lot of um
1:25:11 work already going on on on commoning of resources so
1:25:14 I think it's uh
1:25:15 there's a,
1:25:16 there's some evidences at least,
1:25:17 you know,
1:25:18 beginning to come in,
1:25:19 in,
1:25:19 in this kinds of work,
1:25:21 you
1:25:21 know,
1:25:21 I think,
1:25:22 yeah,
1:25:22 I would stop it.
1:25:23 Thank you so much,
1:25:24 Dan,
1:25:24 you have the last word.
1:25:26 Always dangerous.
1:25:27 Um,
1:25:28 I,
1:25:28 I,
1:25:29 yeah,
1:25:29 I think it's a really,
1:25:30 um,
1:25:30 a really great point,
1:25:31 and it's a good point to end on.
1:25:32 Um,
1:25:33 and I think,
1:25:33 you know,
1:25:33 one of the things to just be
1:25:35 cognizant of is that these aren't easy discussions,
1:25:38 and we need to be honest about that.
1:25:39 We need to say that there are trade-offs in these discussions,
1:25:41 and,
1:25:42 you know,
1:25:43 a multi-stakeholder approach means that lots of
1:25:45 people will come with different vested interests,
1:25:47 and those vested interests will sometimes come up against each other.
1:25:50 And being able to be in a place where you can
1:25:53 recognize that and be open about that is the only way you'll be
1:25:55 able to actually address that cos you'll
1:25:56 be listening to different people's concerns.
1:25:58 That's even more important with the context of water where you've got the upstream,
1:26:01 you know,
1:26:02 whole nature which just makes it even more complex.
1:26:05 So I think absolutely it's something that
1:26:06 we just need to be able to,
1:26:08 to face.
1:26:09 You know,
1:26:09 full on,
1:26:10 and I,
1:26:10 I,
1:26:10 I'm not saying that's easy,
1:26:12 but it comes back to my,
1:26:13 my very first point I made,
1:26:14 which is around,
1:26:14 you know,
1:26:15 we need this political leadership.
1:26:17 We need the political leadership to step up,
1:26:19 and the first part of that is to recognize the
1:26:21 failures of the past and be honest about those,
1:26:23 and not just look at lessons learned in terms of where it's gone well,
1:26:25 but actually also say,
1:26:26 where have we not done this well,
1:26:28 um,
1:26:29 and,
1:26:29 and why did that break down,
1:26:30 and so.
1:26:31 Yeah,
1:26:31 um,
1:26:32 it's a,
1:26:32 it's a cop out because it's a,
1:26:34 uh an idealist's view.
1:26:35 Um,
1:26:36 it's certainly not easy,
1:26:37 but I think that's the only way to actually,
1:26:38 uh,
1:26:39 actually make that progress.
1:26:41 Thank you so much Dan so I think our takeaway message there is
1:26:45 it's gonna be hard work and it's gonna be a
1:26:46 lot of work but it's exciting and it's necessary so
1:26:49 um we really do invite you all to participate in this process meaningfully um as
1:26:55 key stakeholders uh moving forward and
1:26:58 just a last round of applause for our speakers and our panelists.
1:27:03 And thank you so much for coming and and sticking with us and and you.
1:27:07 Very thoughtful questions and participation
1:27:10 have a great day.
1:27:14 Good things.
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A video recording of the Protecting Tenure Rights: Lessons from Land, Forest, and Fisheries session of the 2024 World Bank Land Conference.
The World Bank Land Conference is the premier forum for the land sector, bringing together participants from governments, development partners, civil society, academia, and the private sector to showcase research, discuss issues and good practice, and inform policy dialogue.
Chair: Jessica Troell, Director, Africa Program at the Environmental Law Institute
Speakers:
- Srinivasa Srigiri, Visiting Scholar, German Institute of Development and Sustainability
- Astrid Jakobs de Padua, Minister Counselor for Food and Agriculture, German Embassy in Washington
- Dan Schuster-Beesley, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, United Kingdom
- Chloe Ginsburg, Associate Director, Tenure Tracking Program, Rights and Resources Initiative
- Sofia Espinosa, Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)