01:19 I sent you an email because I don't have a charger.
01:21 Frank was,
01:22 um,
01:22 called me in the hallway,
01:23 so she's gonna try to grab one.
01:25 I ask my colleague if she can do.
01:28 Yeah,
01:28 yes.
01:30 Thanks so much.
01:34 So this is actually a sorry
01:36 oh you guys are already.
01:38 Yeah,
01:39 it's,
01:42 yeah,
01:42 cause it,
01:42 it's a tier one,
01:44 yeah,
01:44 it's a tier one,
01:45 so you always have somebody from the GCS team.
01:48 So if you go to your Webex meeting right there,
01:53 uh,
01:53 if you want to
01:55 mute your computer so that you don't hear,
01:58 uh,
01:59 let's see.
02:00 Just out there so,
02:02 so that if we're talking into the mic you can't hear that
02:06 but uh yeah it looks like the meeting is already recording which is good,
02:09 which is what you want,
02:10 right?
02:10 You want the meeting recorded yeah we want the meeting.
02:11 Yeah,
02:12 I think
02:15 you guys are all set.
02:16 I just need the Clo to come with the presentations.
02:20 She's doing the presentations on her computer.
02:23 OK,
02:23 so,
02:23 so good.
02:26 I bring in the charger now.
02:27 Um,
02:27 just make sure that when I get back IT center for her.
02:31 I'll bring it back as soon as we're done.
02:32 Thank you so much and
02:34 you're staying,
02:34 right?
02:35 Uh,
02:35 I won't be staying for the meeting,
02:36 but I'll,
02:37 I'll stay until you guys are all set up we only begin at 12.
02:42 Yes,
02:42 yeah,
02:43 I can,
02:43 I can say until you all are set up that,
02:45 um,
02:46 so let's see,
02:47 I just want Chloe to come with the microbeadlet for
02:50 the presentation so that we can connect for sure,
02:53 yeah,
02:53 we can make sure that
02:54 that's all set up.
03:06 Thanks so much for coming also.
03:10 Let's see if
03:12 everybody
03:12 was like that yesterday
03:15 with the
03:16 changing room
03:18 like
03:19 that she is
03:20 now
03:22 connecting
03:26 to meet with.
03:26 00,
03:27 so that's that's why we could not use.
03:31 Thank you for those ones.
03:32 Do they have anything
03:36 any from MC 4301 or I don't think so.
03:38 I think it's just getting.
03:44 I'll bring it down
03:46 in
03:46 here.
03:47 Yeah.
04:03 Oh,
04:03 and I was
04:04 installing,
04:05 uh,
04:06 SAP on my computer
04:08 and it takes forever.
04:09 It didn't.
04:10 SAP takes a long time,
04:12 but it's like since yesterday.
04:14 Now it shouldn't take that long.
04:16 And
04:17 when you
04:18 did,
04:18 did you do it if you were leaving the office or anything?
04:20 No,
04:21 I,
04:21 it,
04:21 it stayed for like an hour or two,
04:24 but it's still like this.
04:27 What happens when you type it?
04:27 I don't have it.
04:31 OK,
04:32 uh,
04:33 after the meeting,
04:35 if you come down with the chart,
04:37 I can,
04:37 we'll
04:38 get that one knocked out and we'll install it from
04:41 the post install instead of.
04:43 Sometimes,
04:44 um,
04:44 every randomly every now and we install it.
04:50 Good
04:51 morning.
04:51 Good
04:52 morning.
04:52 Good morning.
04:53 So that's the new room.
04:54 Yes,
04:55 that's the new room.
04:56 Yes,
04:57 and we,
04:57 and we have some lunch,
04:59 lunch.
05:00 Oh,
05:00 big lunch lunch.
05:07 Yeah,
05:08 we'll have you
05:10 sit at the head of the table.
05:12 Yes,
05:14 that's good,
05:14 yeah,
05:14 yeah,
05:15 yeah.
05:18 Yeah,
05:18 I see
05:20 your team,
05:22 but if
05:23 anything
05:25 can be a team.
05:26 OK,
05:26 thank you so much.
05:27 And then yeah,
05:28 sure,
05:28 thank you,
05:33 thank you.
05:33 It.
05:35 But.
05:41 Don't worry about that.
05:44 We're not very,
05:45 uh,
05:45 very
05:47 special.
05:49 You
05:51 sit there and video on camera all the time.
05:54 And you
06:00 OK.
06:00 Would you give me 10 minutes?
06:01 I have to run down to right above.
06:03 Oh,
06:03 you can
06:05 really.
06:11 water.
06:11 Would you like some water?
06:13 Yeah,
06:13 please.
06:16 So good morning.
06:18 Good morning.
06:19 Everything's fine.
06:20 Everything is good.
06:21 I'm just waiting for Chloe to come.
06:24 She has a presentation and uh.
06:27 Yeah,
06:28 yeah,
06:28 but I mean,
06:29 we still
06:30 have 20 minutes.
06:33 No,
06:33 no,
06:33 you're fine.
06:34 Yeah.
06:36 So I have to
06:37 tell you what is going on
06:39 because a lot is going on.
06:41 Um,
06:46 We're in the middle of a revolution.
06:51 Is it wrote my book,
06:51 huh,
06:51 it's a you wrote my goal,
06:54 yeah,
06:54 yeah,
06:56 you should go.
06:57 So this is creating a new a few
07:01 things in a slightly different way,
07:03 so.
07:05 Yeah,
07:06 from,
07:06 from our side we're interacting and
07:13 you know,
07:13 arguing for.
07:13 I'm not sure about the bands more efficient and more
07:22 probably will have.
07:23 It's quite to you guys.
07:26 I mean the conservative fan say
07:29 your parents are really fun.
07:30 Good.
07:31 Oh,
07:31 thank you.
07:32 It's a fun day.
07:36 People taking common and say no,
07:37 you don't understand the challenge.
07:39 It's true.
07:40 It doesn't go well,
07:40 so
07:43 to
07:43 become bigger.
07:44 So we've become much bigger,
07:45 right?
07:47 We've already become much bigger during COVID.
07:48 We doubled that,
07:49 right?
07:51 So we're now at 70 billion.
07:53 But
07:54 there's a huge push on doing more.
07:57 And so,
07:58 so the first bush was more.
08:01 Um,
08:01 but the sex back
08:04 and uh.
08:06 Basically,
08:06 the resource,
08:07 the resources are not growing in a way just do it,
08:10 but
08:12 increasing and so there's already a huge pressure
08:16 for the other
08:17 to together.
08:18 It's a work I'm proposing,
08:20 you have to
08:21 rationalize the
08:23 bad projects or even transform the project,
08:26 a project faster
08:28 as a lot
08:29 faster but also better.
08:32 Right,
08:32 so,
08:33 uh,
08:33 I'm going to Oslo next week
08:35 about meeting with all the them to discuss.
08:40 How we
08:41 bring in evidence that doubles coverage for the same funding.
08:46 Um,
08:48 it's good.
08:49 Mhm.
08:49 Mhm.
08:51 But um,
08:52 yeah,
08:53 slate display both rooms look at the family situations all across
08:57 the board.
09:00 And
09:02 so successful
09:05 for you
09:08 to
09:10 just
09:15 14 now make sure
09:17 you were 7 before that old
09:23 sorry congrats.
09:24 I don't have to congratulate you or feel sorry for you,
09:27 but
09:29 I heard it.
09:32 I,
09:35 I think it's I mean I hope it's.
09:40 Can you,
09:40 you should invites to the rest room also,
09:42 as long as people are still gonna go to,
09:44 you know,
09:47 and you're not changing that.
09:50 In the calendar,
09:53 the calendar I already gave it still says the other room.
09:54 We checked.
09:58 It's still if I did I send no,
09:58 but if I go onto the calendar,
10:00 say IRSP,
10:01 so that it still says the other room.
10:02 That's my
10:05 my
10:08 so.
10:09 This is why I talk about
10:12 uh
10:13 that change about I say that we got to change
10:19 all right,
10:21 so do you have a presentation I do.
10:24 It's
10:25 so bad
10:27 it
10:30 does go,
10:30 it goes to
10:31 and my calendar it says let me double check again,
10:35 but
10:37 yeah,
10:37 it says MC 4301 on my calendar.
10:40 Because you have to close the process of starts,
10:42 right?
10:43 You got the,
10:44 the one that I,
10:45 oh,
10:45 but we have to,
10:46 that would mean that people would have to we are.
10:47 You should take it.
10:52 Yeah,
10:53 the pizza,
10:53 well,
10:53 I don't think people are gonna
10:58 if if people aren't taking pizza,
10:59 people don't invite,
11:00 and then they still to the other room.
11:10 I'm just,
11:10 OK,
11:10 I'm gonna send even if you,
11:11 I think I eat when the people are right now,
11:11 yeah,
11:11 and I'm gonna ask,
11:11 uh-huh,
11:12 you're sharing.
11:15 Yes,
11:15 please.
11:16 I wanna check one thing because there's a no.
11:18 Thank you so much.
11:22 Try one thing vegans.
11:25 Then also put everything on my computer.
11:32 Women and men do not have equal access to economic opportunities.
11:37 They also don't have equal levels of autonomy.
11:40 These gaps are unjust and also economically inefficient.
11:45 The impacts evaluation.
11:46 We are seeking to produce
11:48 a pretty good volume.
11:49 Yeah,
11:50 OK.
11:50 If you want to adjust it to output volume for the TV.
11:55 Is is too great thank you.
12:01 And then did you want a
12:04 camera and then you'll take that position or do you want just that way yeah,
12:10 I just wanted,
12:11 do you wanna be able to see yourselves on the screen or no,
12:13 it's OK to see people,
12:15 so one of the discussions.
12:17 Yeah,
12:19 so we wanna make sure that she talks about,
12:22 but I guess if someone talks,
12:25 we'll see them
12:28 where we see something.
12:28 Yes,
12:28 I mean,
12:28 so long as you're carrying your screen,
12:30 it won't show them enlarged because I think you're there
12:36 but um,
12:37 but yeah,
12:37 you should be able you should get your.
12:41 Yeah,
12:42 yeah,
12:42 yeah,
12:42 yeah,
12:42 and then
12:43 they're
12:44 up,
12:44 you know,
12:45 they're cleaning up,
12:47 I'm gonna ask,
12:47 um,
12:51 you know what I
12:53 saw and they're realizing now,
12:54 and that's not what this looks like I possibly.
12:59 What we're thinking is also to explain what
13:01 we are doing is that all our humanitarian interventions
13:13 in that no CBD and social protection,
13:15 food assistance,
13:15 food for asset in
13:17 economic development.
13:18 Disaster reduction.
13:20 That's the transformation we have to do this,
13:22 but yeah,
13:22 it's doing that,
13:22 yeah,
13:35 it was all Sylvia tried.
13:35 I don't know where I just put down my phone.
13:35 I got my phone and it works on my phone too.
13:36 That's a good thing I think my phone that's what I only had a phone so.
13:39 and then I went into the things into the IT to like what's happen and then why
13:46 it works now
13:49 and it's nice and short and I think the message is nice,
13:51 right?
13:51 It's about the great set it up the reservations here and have
13:57 and it says good things.
14:01 Yeah,
14:01 I think it's good to,
14:02 uh,
14:03 pick it out of this
14:05 to,
14:06 yeah,
14:06 because I mean all the,
14:07 the people will talk about specific.
14:12 Yeah,
14:12 I mean in Boston.
14:15 OK,
14:16 keep it at
14:18 that level that was the initial,
14:19 yes 4 30 11,
14:23 obviously,
14:24 you know,
14:24 they
14:25 just asking people to go there and I mean this is a good opportunity,
14:28 I think,
14:29 to kind of
14:32 Interface
14:39 which is
14:41 yeah,
14:42 yeah,
14:42 not a uniform framework,
14:43 but at least it yeah
14:45 yeah
14:48 yeah yeah,
14:51 yeah,
14:51 I think it's I don't have a big strategic it's recording,
14:53 so,
14:54 oh,
14:54 perfect,
14:54 thank you,
14:55 um.
15:01 You know,
15:01 I,
15:01 I think one of things they're supposed to be,
15:02 there's supposed to be a lot of Nice to meet you.
15:20 OK,
15:20 cut down all the lazy people.
15:21 No,
15:22 no,
15:22 no,
15:22 you have a best friend,
15:29 OK.
15:31 Yes,
15:31 um,
15:32 we have the,
15:32 the three areas,
15:34 um,
15:35 which is,
15:38 sorry,
15:38 I didn't forgot too much,
15:39 the operational model and the model,
15:42 um.
15:43 So I've been part of the operation model,
15:45 but that's also involved in the I should stay.
15:49 Should we put like a sign on
16:02 it,
16:02 it,
16:02 it's still the other,
16:02 you know,
16:02 I'm not sure introduction and
16:05 redefining
16:11 you can't do anything about it really.
16:12 That's uh maybe
16:13 maybe it's the gas
16:16 just
16:18 how long how much it take
16:21 oh,
16:21 because she was and uh
16:23 OK
16:23 and then the question is just
16:28 on the 5 because he's planning to 65
16:31 and I guess we have
16:34 you know they basically there are 6
16:38 public.
16:44 put that on my goodness did you update the calendar I
16:46 did,
16:48 yeah,
16:48 to go there
16:49 to check and there's anyone
16:51 we can ask her.
16:51 Yeah,
16:52 we ask them to come back so it's natural habitat and forestry
16:57 the uh physician
17:01 it's
17:04 important things you forget,
17:05 um.
17:07 So
17:09 and kind of understanding and then
17:20 I just resend it announcement.
17:23 You and
17:25 I didn't copy you.
17:26 Sorry,
17:27 I find it.
17:27 I'm just saying if,
17:28 if,
17:29 if everybody who accepted the old invite,
17:31 would they see that,
17:32 yeah,
17:33 no,
17:33 that's more concession.
17:34 So the concessionary funds today are mainly for the purpose of.
17:41 Distribution
17:42 and the link will be the same,
17:43 right?
17:44 Yes,
17:45 but the
17:49 the.
17:52 It's a different,
17:52 it's a different rationale for industrial recession
17:57 and so the rules of that have to be
18:00 developed really
18:02 who pays for what.
18:03 So if,
18:05 if Brazil
18:06 takes a huge economic cost of protecting the Amazon,
18:11 but not in the end,
18:11 not in the end,
18:13 um,
18:14 and similarly for all the
18:15 In reduction
18:18 you don't have anything to gain,
18:20 yeah.
18:21 But they're not contributors to the it's nice they have everything.
18:29 So these,
18:30 these are,
18:31 and then the,
18:31 the big,
18:32 big item on the agenda is private family compensation
18:37 yeah
18:37 and I can hear the IFC
18:42 then we can bring in capital and
18:44 goods,
18:44 but we need to look at the a lot of people to
18:49 the non-public good agendas.
18:54 Responsible for much of what we need to fight against,
18:56 yeah,
18:59 the
18:59 private sector is not
19:03 definitely not
19:05 why should be
19:07 in a way that should
19:08 beyond this.
19:10 Oh wait.
19:10 Oh wait,
19:11 one more question just Patrick,
19:12 is that a guest?
19:13 Oh yeah,
19:14 OK,
19:14 great.
19:14 So it's so it's,
19:15 that's
19:25 perfect.
19:25 OK,
19:25 so you to sign it's like.
19:27 In terms of de-risking,
19:30 do you wanna know how the microphones work?
19:32 these little,
19:32 little bottles right here.
32:22 I
32:23 notice that we were on
32:29 Good afternoon everyone and uh wonderful to have you here.
32:32 Thank you everyone for joining online as well.
32:35 I am,
32:35 uh,
32:36 very happy to have,
32:37 uh,
32:37 my very good friend Ute Clammert
32:39 from the WFP.
32:40 She is the deputy executive director for Partnerships and
32:44 advocacy advocacy,
32:46 yes,
32:47 uh,
32:48 together with her team,
32:49 um,
32:50 with the WFP.
32:52 The World Bank has a long-standing partnership with the WFP
32:56 where we collaborate in very fragile context,
32:58 in contexts where the World Bank cannot even
33:00 put a foot in.
33:01 The WFP is the largest
33:03 UN agency
33:05 and,
33:06 uh,
33:06 I just learned that they doubled,
33:09 they doubled,
33:10 um,
33:11 their,
33:11 uh,
33:12 funding
33:13 and therefore their ability to
33:15 uh
33:16 reach out in,
33:17 uh,
33:18 these
33:18 days of great.
33:21 Uh,
33:21 very challenging days,
33:23 uh,
33:23 we're looking at.
33:26 A combination of crisis from pandemics to conflict,
33:29 um,
33:30 to environmental,
33:32 um,
33:33 Uh,
33:34 shocks,
33:35 and the WFP is really at the center of it all and a very,
33:39 very good partner to the World Bank,
33:40 um,
33:41 working with World Bank projects
33:43 and,
33:44 uh,
33:44 operating in areas where sometimes there is no government,
33:49 uh,
33:49 sometimes there are no structures to deliver programs,
33:52 and the WFP goes in with their own,
33:55 uh,
33:55 staff and,
33:56 uh,
33:57 um,
33:58 operations to deliver,
33:59 uh.
34:00 And save lives
34:02 and really provide that uh
34:05 safety net and social protection
34:07 that is needed in those crises.
34:09 I,
34:10 I wanna say that.
34:12 Kind of this old idea
34:14 that
34:15 all these
34:16 uh
34:17 transfers and support structures for vulnerable people in vulnerable situations
34:24 was considered a giveaway for a very long time
34:27 and I think
34:28 the partnership that we have from
34:30 the knowledge side,
34:32 knowledge for impact side with WFP.
34:34 And with many others with the social protection and jobs,
34:38 global practice in the World Bank,
34:39 but also with many other partners
34:42 is to understand what the social protection
34:45 interventions can do,
34:48 not
34:48 just to protect during vulnerable time but actually.
34:52 Uh,
34:53 putting down a stepping stone for communities to grow,
34:57 change their
34:58 productive capabilities,
35:00 and actually reduce poverty now
35:03 and in a persistent way,
35:05 um,
35:06 and so the,
35:07 the partnership that we have established with
35:09 WFP since 2019
35:13 has been really geared to understand
35:15 what can we learn from,
35:17 uh,
35:17 world,
35:17 um,
35:18 world.
35:19 Uh,
35:19 food program programming on the ground
35:22 and how we can incorporate the learning
35:24 as we transition into
35:26 government social protection systems,
35:28 what it is that we can do to kind of strengthen that transition
35:32 and support governments,
35:34 incorporate all the learning
35:37 and,
35:37 um,
35:38 and provide for much better systems for,
35:40 as I said,
35:41 poverty reduction
35:42 and economic growth.
35:45 I think this is
35:45 very good news,
35:47 uh,
35:47 very good news
35:48 that,
35:49 uh,
35:49 cash transfer program
35:51 and asset transfer
35:53 can actually provide
35:55 something for the future that is
35:58 important and persistent,
36:00 that it is,
36:01 as I said,
36:01 not just a giveaway,
36:03 and of course giveaways are important when
36:05 people are in very vulnerable situations and
36:08 are,
36:10 uh.
36:11 But kind of understanding that these are investments for the future and they have
36:16 uh
36:16 high cost effectiveness
36:18 can transform the way in which we think about um
36:21 these programs and also the amount of resources that we
36:25 raise and,
36:26 and,
36:27 and put out in this situation.
36:29 So
36:31 I'm very happy to say our program has
36:34 um
36:36 Has a very interesting um
36:40 spread across multiple countries in,
36:43 in fragile conditions.
36:44 I think we're covering now 13 countries in
36:47 this um impact evaluation program with the WFP,
36:51 but there are many,
36:51 many more that are in
36:53 part of our program with uh SPJ
36:57 and uh even with,
36:58 uh,
36:59 we have here Rui from uh Education.
37:02 Um,
37:02 we're going to talk today about
37:05 how
37:06 we're thinking
37:07 about impact evaluation,
37:09 not just providing the evidence needed
37:11 to show how effective
37:13 these interventions
37:14 can be,
37:15 but also working on how to maximize the impact of these interventions
37:20 through what we today call
37:22 a trial and adopt model,
37:25 and the trial and adopt model is designed
37:27 to test.
37:29 Alternatives,
37:31 delivery mechanisms,
37:32 packages,
37:33 uh,
37:33 to understand how to
37:36 Optimize parameters like prices and incentives,
37:39 uh,
37:40 how to improve targeting and so forth and so on
37:43 to maximize the impact of our interventions.
37:46 What we show in our experience in the last 15 years
37:49 is
37:50 that we can actually double coverage
37:53 by understanding how to
37:56 find the most cost effective interventions
37:59 and double coverage means.
38:01 Doubling
38:03 the amount of
38:04 essentially doubling the amount of money that we put out,
38:08 so this is very,
38:08 very exciting and then we wanna hear from you,
38:11 Ute,
38:11 how you view,
38:13 uh,
38:14 well.
38:15 This program,
38:16 the value of knowledge,
38:17 but also
38:19 kind of
38:20 looking forward
38:21 on how we can build even stronger structures between WFP and the World Bank
38:25 to move together in this agenda.
38:27 Yeah,
38:28 yeah,
38:28 thank you,
38:29 Ariana.
38:30 Uh,
38:30 so nice to be here.
38:32 I have to say it feels always a little bit
38:33 like coming home because we started here in this building,
38:36 you know,
38:37 uh,
38:37 meeting us,
38:38 but I've just learned that we have a historic
38:40 relationship,
38:41 you know,
38:42 uh,
38:42 you know,
38:44 long before we started,
38:45 and we started apparently on the,
38:47 on the school meal side.
38:48 So that's also good to know that's also knowledge,
38:50 no.
38:51 But I have to say what you said,
38:53 uh,
38:53 try and adopt model.
38:54 It feels at the moment,
38:56 uh,
38:56 working for WFP that the whole organization is like a try and adopt model,
39:01 right?
39:02 We are on a huge transformation journey as an
39:05 organization and some of you in the room,
39:08 maybe you're thinking of WFP or also online.
39:12 Uh,
39:12 you're thinking about,
39:13 you know,
39:14 you hear WFP and you think humanitarian intervention,
39:16 right?
39:17 The humanitarian agency.
39:18 Yes,
39:19 we are the largest humanitarian operator and also in charge
39:22 for the logistical side for the whole UN system,
39:25 but I,
39:25 you know,
39:26 and someone asking you,
39:27 how are you doing?
39:27 And,
39:28 and I said,
39:28 you know,
39:29 we are stressed as an organization,
39:31 really stressed and stretched.
39:32 You can imagine Turkey.
39:34 Turkey,
39:35 uh,
39:35 you know,
39:36 Syria,
39:36 you know,
39:37 you feel immediately,
39:38 oh my God,
39:39 no,
39:39 you know,
39:40 we have to respond and we have to in a way distribute immediately on the spot,
39:45 also in areas where other organizations
39:48 cannot
39:50 have no access,
39:50 so that's,
39:51 that's fine,
39:52 but
39:53 Uh,
39:53 that's our mandate,
39:54 but on the other hand,
39:55 you know,
39:56 the humanitarian needs are going up.
39:58 Um,
39:58 we are starting talking about poly crisis,
40:01 uh,
40:01 that was suggested by the,
40:03 uh,
40:04 by In Davos,
40:05 but,
40:05 you know,
40:06 really talking about this over,
40:08 you know,
40:08 these different layers of,
40:10 of,
40:10 of crisis and
40:12 what does that mean for us,
40:13 Ariana?
40:14 We,
40:14 we are very realistic that,
40:17 uh,
40:17 you know,
40:17 as much as we are successful with our fundraising,
40:20 we will never get enough
40:22 funds and financial support
40:24 to address the,
40:26 you know,
40:26 the increase of needs,
40:27 right?
40:28 So the question is this try and adopt model is a really
40:31 Suggesting,
40:32 and also our strategic plan is now suggesting saying,
40:35 you know,
40:35 what are
40:36 kind of good interventions where we can prove and tell the story
40:40 that there are different interventions,
40:43 you know,
40:43 making a difference in the life of people and we
40:46 are achieving with the same amount of support we get.
40:49 We are,
40:49 you know,
40:50 we are achieving more,
40:51 we are,
40:51 we are,
40:51 you know,
40:52 on,
40:52 on the qualities element,
40:54 you know,
40:55 the,
40:56 the feedback is
40:57 we are better,
40:58 you know,
40:58 we are more efficient,
40:59 we are more effective,
41:01 we are listening more,
41:02 we are getting that kind of
41:03 targeting better,
41:04 we are listening to different target groups and,
41:06 and,
41:07 and
41:08 so,
41:08 I would say,
41:09 you know,
41:10 this huge transformation journey
41:12 is
41:13 now reflecting everything what we do,
41:15 including the evaluation.
41:17 We,
41:17 we set up a new evaluation strategy.
41:19 We created an impact evaluation unit.
41:23 I have to say very frankly,
41:24 not everyone was immediately buying into that.
41:30 I fell in love with impact evaluation and you know,
41:33 and
41:34 so I guess I don't know exactly uh where we are with that kind of,
41:37 you know,
41:38 making friends and dating with the,
41:40 with the impact evaluation.
41:42 But I feel,
41:43 you know,
41:44 what is very conducive to for that we are for everyone falling
41:48 in love with impact evaluation is also the pressure from donors,
41:52 right?
41:53 And correctly so.
41:54 I mean,
41:54 also,
41:55 uh,
41:56 uh,
41:57 the US is a huge donor,
41:58 mainly
42:00 funding our humanitarian side,
42:02 but there is also that kind of strong wish to
42:05 understand what we can do better on the humanitarian.
42:08 Response,
42:09 but also what we can do better,
42:11 and there's a lot of,
42:12 you know,
42:12 other donors in particular Germany,
42:14 uh,
42:15 but some of the Nordics,
42:16 Australia,
42:17 you know,
42:18 really asking
42:19 for that kind of evidence and the knowledge.
42:22 And I have to say,
42:23 and I,
42:23 I want to share that also,
42:24 you know,
42:25 from my,
42:25 from my job perspective,
42:27 this year,
42:28 but in particular next year will be a tough year
42:30 because we will see a lot of donors focusing on the Ukraine response.
42:35 And then the question is,
42:37 there is a holy crisis.
42:38 out there.
42:39 There is a global food security and a malnutrition
42:42 crisis out there.
42:43 How are we alerting the
42:45 international
42:46 community,
42:47 us,
42:48 you know,
42:48 that,
42:48 that we,
42:49 that we have to think really about the Myanmar's,
42:52 about the Iraq's,
42:53 uh,
42:54 um,
42:55 Afghanistan,
42:56 you know,
42:56 and also Kenya,
42:57 who is talking about Kenya these days,
42:59 Ariana,
43:00 you know,
43:00 the refugee influx from.
43:02 Somalia
43:03 or the refugee influx from from Mali to Mauritania.
43:07 So and that that is,
43:08 that is our,
43:09 I would say that's our,
43:10 our challenge,
43:11 uh,
43:12 that we also enable our,
43:14 you know,
43:14 our donors,
43:15 our long standing donors,
43:17 but also our new donors going back to parliaments
43:20 also enabling think tanks that they are talking about us,
43:23 what we,
43:24 what we are achieving now.
43:26 So,
43:26 and I,
43:27 as you can imagine,
43:28 you know,
43:28 the,
43:28 the whole transformation journey is.
43:31 is very exciting,
43:33 but it's also a little bit of a bumpy road,
43:35 because once you are operating on the humanitarian side,
43:37 you measure,
43:38 you measure activity and you measure,
43:41 you measure
43:42 the output element.
43:43 But to move the needle to outcomes and impact,
43:46 you know,
43:47 not everyone was immediately falling in love with that kind of intervention.
43:52 So,
43:53 or that
43:54 that kind of corridor.
43:56 So what I've learned
43:57 reading,
43:57 uh,
43:58 you know,
43:58 from my,
43:59 you know,
44:00 from a really nice colleague from OECD Duck,
44:03 uh,
44:03 Susana Moorehead on her way out,
44:05 no,
44:05 she gave a very interesting interview and I've learned one word from her.
44:09 She said,
44:09 you know,
44:09 I guess when I'm looking back,
44:11 what is,
44:12 what is needed is strategic patience.
44:15 Yeah,
44:15 and I love that,
44:17 you know,
44:17 you need,
44:18 you need,
44:18 you need strategic patience
44:21 for,
44:21 you know,
44:21 that sta that your strategic investments in an organization,
44:25 I guess the same in the world at the World Bank
44:28 will pay off and that we,
44:30 that we have time,
44:31 that we give us time to see the,
44:33 the,
44:33 the long,
44:34 uh,
44:34 midterm,
44:35 long term,
44:35 um,
44:36 uh,
44:37 effects.
44:37 And I,
44:38 and you,
44:38 you,
44:39 you mentioned that we are,
44:40 you know,
44:41 on this,
44:41 on this transformation journey.
44:43 You know,
44:44 from the humanitarian side,
44:45 cash-based transfers,
44:46 school-based programs.
44:49 In a humanitarian context have to lead
44:52 in the long run to social protection,
44:54 you know,
44:55 systems
44:56 and social protection kind of visions and ideas,
45:00 you know,
45:00 in,
45:00 in so many different country setups,
45:02 uh,
45:03 food assistance and food for asset.
45:05 I don't like these headlines,
45:07 no,
45:07 but
45:07 food assistance
45:09 has to in a way move into rural,
45:11 uh,
45:12 rural and economic development,
45:13 right?
45:14 And then,
45:15 uh,
45:15 our disaster risk reduction and response has to
45:18 get into the whole domain of climate adaptation.
45:21 So these are all these kind of next,
45:24 you're walking over the nexus bridge,
45:25 walking from a humanitarian intervention
45:28 and having in mind immediately like in Turkey and,
45:31 and Syria at the moment,
45:32 yes,
45:33 we have to do immediately in the here and now,
45:35 but we have to think about
45:37 the long term,
45:38 uh,
45:39 perspective.
45:40 And in that context,
45:42 I have to say it's great as an organization that we feel that the
45:46 World Bank is seeing us more and more as as a strategic partner.
45:50 It's not about,
45:51 you know,
45:51 who is,
45:52 you know,
45:53 funding whom.
45:54 It's we are,
45:54 we're ending up hopefully doing kind of joint funding for our,
45:58 for our next 4 years if we sign the MOU.
46:02 So we went,
46:02 we are very clear,
46:04 we,
46:04 we want to walk a longer period.
46:06 Together we want to have
46:08 strategic patience together,
46:10 Ariana,
46:10 you know,
46:11 um,
46:12 but we also,
46:15 we also want to too much not too much pressure,
46:16 but we want to also listen and celebrate what
46:19 we know already and we agreed on 4 windows,
46:22 and I'm glad that we are moving the needle.
46:24 Thank you very much and congratulations that you managed to get a
46:27 stand-alone department.
46:29 That's great.
46:29 I think the group deserved it.
46:31 The topic deserved it.
46:32 And we are absolutely happy to be part of your journey as well.
46:37 Uh,
46:37 I also hope that we can,
46:39 uh,
46:39 get approved for the spring meeting event,
46:42 and that will be a very interesting event exactly on,
46:45 on this subject.
46:48 So I guess
46:49 we,
46:49 uh,
46:50 so thank you very much.
46:51 I,
46:52 I think this is,
46:53 uh,
46:53 a great ride,
46:54 and I really like the way you,
46:56 you,
46:57 uh,
46:57 drew out the connections between
47:00 the humanitarian and emergency response side together with the developmental
47:04 one and how do we create the knowledge to actually
47:07 make those linkages,
47:09 um,
47:10 um.
47:11 Uh,
47:12 and develop those linkages in a way that
47:14 makes sense.
47:15 I want to hear from,
47:17 uh,
47:18 uh-huh,
47:19 Jonas.
47:19 He's,
47:19 uh,
47:20 our
47:20 old partner from many years in many different roles,
47:24 um,
47:24 but of course he came to WFP to support the launch of this program,
47:29 uh,
47:29 which has been,
47:30 uh,
47:31 uh,
47:32 really wonderful.
47:33 Great.
47:33 Thank you.
47:33 Thank you,
47:34 thank you.
47:35 So it's really nice to be here with you all today.
47:38 I'm going to,
47:39 over the next few minutes,
47:40 just give a brief introduction to the Impacttuation partnership
47:43 that we have developed over the last 4 years,
47:46 and then I'm gonna hand it over to our colleagues in DIMU working on specific
47:50 windows to talk about some of the early findings
47:53 from the work that we've already been putting together.
47:56 So,
47:57 before actually this partnership and before 2019,
48:00 impact evaluation was not
48:02 part of WFP's evaluation policy.
48:05 Um,
48:07 and that,
48:07 and,
48:08 and it was really,
48:09 um,
48:10 actually in 2019 when we
48:12 actually developed a strategy for impact evaluation and started
48:14 working with DM and with our German colleagues and donors
48:18 to think about how do we make impact evaluation a core part of WFP business
48:22 and it was a slow and,
48:24 well,
48:24 not that slow,
48:24 but a steady and gradual progress and then last year in 2022.
48:29 The board approved the new evaluation policy that makes impact evaluation,
48:33 uh,
48:33 a part of the institutional evaluation policy as a stand-alone type of evaluation.
48:38 So,
48:38 the board's policy,
48:39 which they approved for the whole organization has centralized evaluations,
48:43 impact evaluations,
48:44 and decentralized evaluations.
48:46 Um,
48:46 this gave us the,
48:47 the chance to create a unit.
48:49 It also means that we have core staff dedicated to impact evaluation.
48:53 And across the organization people are talking about
48:56 when and how they should use impact evaluation to support their programming,
49:00 support their fundraising,
49:01 support their thinking,
49:02 um,
49:02 and so it's becoming slowly,
49:04 it is becoming kind of part of WFP's business as usual.
49:07 I mean,
49:08 it's slow,
49:08 but it is going that way,
49:10 um,
49:11 so
49:12 I'm excited about that.
49:13 That's already,
49:13 I think,
49:14 a big shift organizationally over a relatively short time.
49:18 Um,
49:18 we define impact evaluations a bit narrowly,
49:21 and that's to again.
49:23 show how they complement other types of evidence and evaluation.
49:26 So for us,
49:27 impact evaluations,
49:28 they measure changes in development outcomes that
49:30 can be attributed to a credible counterfactual.
49:33 So all the impact issues we do are really thinking about counterfactual analysis,
49:37 what is a credible counterfactual?
49:39 Um,
49:39 so far,
49:40 that means we've
49:41 developed mostly using experimental methods,
49:43 so all of them have an a randomization as a core part of the design at this point,
49:48 but we also acknowledge there are other ways to develop credible counterfactuals.
49:54 Um,
49:55 early on,
49:55 we looked for how would we do this in a,
49:57 in a setting that,
49:59 um,
49:59 we have a very large organization,
50:01 a lot of need,
50:01 a lot of demand,
50:02 and we,
50:03 we had a very,
50:03 I mean,
50:04 very small unit to start off with and,
50:06 and it's still small in WFP so
50:08 partnering with DIN was a like a very strategic decision from the beginning.
50:12 Um,
50:12 it's also good timing because the year before in 2018,
50:16 the organizations had already agreed that there was a need for
50:19 operationally to have this global partnership between World Bank and WFP.
50:23 And so we piggybacked on that and said,
50:25 well,
50:25 they have DIME,
50:26 which is a,
50:26 a very well established development um impact tuation unit,
50:30 and we would work with them
50:31 and,
50:32 and so the 1st
50:33 4 years have really been working with DINM to
50:35 learn from their experience in terms of methods and,
50:38 and design,
50:39 um,
50:40 and also generating evidence that really met WFP's strategic priority needs.
50:45 Um,
50:46 so that's,
50:46 I think,
50:47 been a nice way of working together,
50:49 and I think that,
50:50 I mean,
50:50 the new MOU allows us to continue,
50:51 which is,
50:52 which is great.
50:54 When we thought about the amount of evidence needs that were there,
50:57 it is actually,
50:58 it's very large.
50:59 I mean,
51:00 WFP operates in contexts that have
51:02 very few rigorous impact evaluations to reference
51:05 in sectors that are also
51:07 almost void of,
51:07 of rigorous impact evaluation evidence.
51:09 So it's,
51:09 it's,
51:09 it's,
51:09 it's almost an endless amount of stuff we could have done.
51:12 So we had to be strategic in how we organize our work.
51:15 We started off working closely with program divisions in
51:18 the WFP and thought about what are their strategies,
51:20 where do they see their increase in spending?
51:23 And then we paired that with literature reviews to say,
51:25 OK,
51:25 you're expecting to grow in terms of cash transfers and this is your,
51:29 your objectives to target women.
51:32 What can we learn about that?
51:33 How can we make that growth in cash transfers
51:36 better by learning while we're doing?
51:37 And so,
51:38 we've designed these windows to focus on areas that were high value
51:42 future spend
51:43 and uh not heavily supported with evidence that we could already readily use.
51:48 Then cross-cutting,
51:49 we have this workstream on humanitarian impactation,
51:51 which is supported heavily by the US and BHA
51:54 which is more about context.
51:55 So,
51:56 if we're working in very fragile areas or in emergency responses,
51:59 we also have to tweak the way we work.
52:01 So we have to think about
52:02 maybe it's actually more about experimenting with the modalities,
52:05 or AB testing type of designs.
52:07 And so we have a whole workstream on how do we operate in this context.
52:11 Mm
52:12 Um,
52:13 and we've been busy.
52:14 I mean,
52:14 we,
52:15 we have,
52:15 uh,
52:17 130,
52:18 but 18 overall right now.
52:19 And that's before we launched the nutrition window this year.
52:21 So we're very,
52:22 very busy in,
52:23 in many countries.
52:24 Um,
52:25 each of the windows
52:26 is supporting multi-country designs and,
52:29 and the,
52:29 I mean,
52:30 Clarence and,
52:30 and Paul will talk about those.
52:32 Um,
52:32 but
52:33 we're also coming to the end of the first few.
52:35 So we,
52:35 the,
52:35 the earliest ones were in El Salvador,
52:37 Kenya,
52:37 Rwanda,
52:38 uh,
52:39 Mali,
52:39 ***,
52:39 and,
52:40 and South Sudan.
52:41 And
52:41 we just finished our end lines for El
52:43 Salvador and do now doing the qualitative works,
52:46 but I'm gonna play a short video
52:48 from the country representative just
52:50 talking about his experience.
52:54 Yes.
52:56 Women and men do not have equal access to economic opportunities.
53:01 They also don't have equal levels of autonomy.
53:04 These gaps are unjust and also economically inefficient.
53:09 With the impacts evaluation,
53:11 we are seeking to produce evidence
53:13 on the question whether targeting women
53:16 and having them participate in.
53:19 Food assistance for assets programming
53:21 has an impact on their social and economic empowerment.
53:25 The process of uh
53:27 the impact evaluation was a great learning experience.
53:31 Particularly,
53:32 it offered great collaboration and frequent
53:34 exchanges between the Country Office,
53:36 the Office of devaluation,
53:38 and the World Bank.
53:40 It also showed a strong commitment to evidence-based decision making.
53:44 The team effort and the open communication helped
53:48 to ensure a thorough and comprehensive evaluation.
53:52 Also,
53:53 uh,
53:54 it helped
53:55 in a way that the future evaluations can be
53:58 even more effective and efficient.
54:01 We look forward to exploring new focus areas for impact evaluation
54:05 jointly with the Office of Evaluation
54:07 and its partners.
54:09 Some of them include
54:10 targeting.
54:11 For instance,
54:12 focus on exploring the use of new data sources
54:16 and innovative targeting methods.
54:19 For example,
54:19 comparing data driven to more community-based methods,
54:23 which will help
54:24 reach
54:25 the most vulnerable communities
54:28 in a more efficient way.
54:32 Great.
54:32 And so,
54:33 I mean,
54:33 I,
54:33 I think it's nice just to have that for a minute because
54:36 it's very easy for me and I and everybody to tell you how great evaluation is,
54:40 but it's also nice to hear it from people who
54:42 don't live and breathe evaluation every day.
54:46 Um,
54:46 and then just lastly before I hand it over,
54:48 I,
54:49 so I say that the work is,
54:50 is really only possible because of partnerships.
54:52 It,
54:52 it's,
54:53 it's our donor partners which is growing.
54:55 I mean,
54:55 we get supported by Germany,
54:57 COICA,
54:57 USA,
54:58 NORAD.
54:58 They're all supporting the work that we do.
55:00 It's also our implementing partners and we have joint impactations actually
55:04 on the ground with UNICEF in South Sudan and South Sudan.
55:07 Um,
55:07 and we've got a growing network of NGO and university
55:10 partners that feed in in terms of offering technical advice,
55:13 engaging in our work in different ways.
55:14 So I just want to make it clear that that's a very important part of how we
55:18 And so
55:19 without further ado,
55:20 I think I'm gonna hand it over now.
55:22 Oh,
55:23 and then looking forward,
55:24 looking forward,
55:25 um,
55:26 we,
55:26 we have big ambitions.
55:27 We'd like to actually make sure that the
55:29 evidence we've generated already is really used.
55:32 I mean,
55:32 it's nice that the country office sees it,
55:34 but we wanna make sure it's visible globally,
55:36 that it has an impact on the way WFP and the World Bank operates,
55:39 um,
55:40 in terms of understanding the context and targeting and issues that come out.
55:43 We also want to work together to raise the
55:45 awareness of the tool of impact evaluation that this is
55:49 part of core business.
55:50 If you can and you have an opportunity,
55:51 it,
55:51 it benefits the whole organization to do it more so to make it kind of
55:55 business as usual.
55:56 Um,
55:57 and then we also want to think about how to
55:59 identify mutual priorities for the World Bank and WFP,
56:02 particularly where we already operate together in,
56:05 in countries and,
56:06 and,
56:06 and
56:06 Sectors,
56:07 why,
56:08 what are you gonna focus on that we could both benefit from most going forward
56:12 and that
56:13 would allow us to have maybe a,
56:15 a,
56:15 a more mutual
56:16 agenda and then have the windows also
56:19 be fed by impactations of both the World Bank operations and
56:22 WFP operations as we go ahead so we're learning from each other
56:26 as we go forward in the next phase of the evidence generation.
56:30 OK,
56:30 now I will hand it over to.
56:38 Uh,
56:38 thank you,
56:39 Jonas,
56:39 Sannua,
56:40 and Norea for the excellent introduction and the exciting agenda.
56:43 I'm really happy to be here,
56:45 uh,
56:45 today in the role of getting
56:48 to share on behalf of the many collaborators,
56:50 researchers,
56:50 uh,
56:51 and partners what this impact evaluation process looks like in practice
56:55 and how countries are using this evidence and learning from this process,
56:59 and you are Paul Christian and I am pro Christian.
57:01 I'm sorry.
57:02 I'm Paul Christian,
57:03 a senior economist at I'm working on the climate and resilience window.
57:06 So happy to be here to,
57:08 to get to share,
57:09 uh,
57:09 what this looks like and,
57:11 uh,
57:11 some of the learning and results we're starting to find so far.
57:15 Um,
57:15 so,
57:15 in the climate resilience window,
57:17 we're going to be asking questions related to how the food for assets,
57:21 uh,
57:21 and related approaches,
57:23 integrated livelihood approaches
57:24 improve resilience.
57:25 So,
57:25 if you're here today,
57:26 it's probably because you have lots of experience and,
57:29 uh,
57:29 and like looking at data on poverty,
57:32 vulnerability,
57:33 and food security.
57:34 So all of us with that background
57:36 understand that these are inherently dynamic concepts.
57:38 People who are Food insecure today might not be the same
57:41 as those who are food insecure tomorrow and vice versa.
57:44 So as we expand these concepts
57:46 to talk about resilience,
57:47 we can think about people,
57:49 communities,
57:50 uh,
57:50 and populations being more resilient.
57:52 If,
57:53 for example,
57:53 their livelihood strategies are well adapted to their environments,
57:56 allowing them to achieve,
57:58 uh,
57:59 a good level of food security or,
58:01 or,
58:01 uh,
58:01 well-being over time.
58:03 Uh,
58:03 but also that they're able to avoid changes in their environment.
58:07 So avoid the impacts of shocks and stressors
58:09 and hopefully transform and improve their well-being or
58:12 food security or poverty status over time.
58:15 When we think about what we can do about these concepts,
58:18 uh,
58:18 we're going to be focusing within the,
58:20 the two windows we're presenting today
58:22 on the impact of food for assets and related integrated livelihoods programs
58:27 which,
58:27 uh,
58:29 the main components include providing cash or food
58:32 as transfers in a part of the year in exchange for
58:36 recipients working on community assets that
58:38 intended to improve livelihood opportunities.
58:41 And,
58:42 uh,
58:42 as was already highlighted,
58:43 these are huge programs,
58:45 uh,
58:45 affecting,
58:46 um,
58:47 tens of millions of people in the food for assets case in over 50 countries.
58:51 Uh,
58:51 and if you expand the,
58:52 the findings to include cash transfers,
58:54 now we're talking about more than 40 million people in 60 countries.
58:57 So huge,
58:58 uh,
58:58 chunk of what the WFP and humanitarian agencies are.
59:03 So,
59:04 following on previous work,
59:05 finding that programs like FFA or transfers uh more broadly
59:10 uh and related programming can overall improve food security,
59:14 in thinking about this from a climate or resilience lens,
59:17 we're gonna be,
59:18 uh,
59:19 expanding to ask questions like whether we see the biggest impacts in the seasons,
59:23 uh,
59:24 when FFA is implemented,
59:25 knowing that,
59:26 uh,
59:27 seasons drive a lot of changes in context for these livelihood opportunities.
59:31 Whether the impacts on food security are the biggest before,
59:33 during,
59:34 or after shocks
59:35 and specifically how
59:38 programs like FFA or related livelihoods programs can take advantage
59:41 in terms of timing or targeting in order to maximize the impact of these programs.
59:46 So because a big part of the contribution of this
59:50 window is on the data side bringing novel unique data,
59:52 I just wanted to highlight for one or two minutes,
59:55 uh,
59:55 what the unique approach to data is here and I have a question of
59:58 why high frequency data specifically is important
1:00:01 for understanding this core concept of resilience.
1:00:03 So if we think about what we would do in a normal
1:00:06 uh impact evaluation,
1:00:07 we think about
1:00:08 the first thing we might do is do our,
1:00:10 our baseline survey in the first couple of months
1:00:12 and following the baseline survey,
1:00:14 uh,
1:00:15 do our core programming,
1:00:16 providing transfers and asking households to work on,
1:00:19 uh,
1:00:20 contribute their labor to work on,
1:00:22 uh,
1:00:23 developing assets
1:00:24 and maybe do this for a couple of cycles allowing them to receive their
1:00:27 full dose and then we'd come in and we do our end line.
1:00:30 And by comparing changes from baseline to endline and if we're careful
1:00:34 comparing those changes with a control group who hasn't had access to the program,
1:00:37 we would say this is,
1:00:39 these changes are
1:00:40 quote-unquote,
1:00:41 the impact of the program of food for assets and food security.
1:00:45 But we all know from working in
1:00:46 these challenging contexts in these rural livelihood settings
1:00:49 that many other things are changing between the baseline
1:00:52 and the endline besides our transfers and our,
1:00:54 our asset work.
1:00:56 So there's gonna be agricultural calendars,
1:00:57 people are gonna be busy with planting,
1:00:59 cultivation and harvesting,
1:01:00 overlapping with the periods of when we're doing FFA
1:01:04 and there's gonna be shocks.
1:01:05 So if we're,
1:01:06 uh,
1:01:07 considering an impact evaluation that happens over multiple years,
1:01:09 we might observe one year where there's good weather,
1:01:12 uh,
1:01:12 and another year where there's bad weather,
1:01:13 and that might affect or mediate,
1:01:15 uh,
1:01:16 the impact of our program.
1:01:18 So,
1:01:18 the main contribution of this,
1:01:21 uh,
1:01:21 this
1:01:23 data collection effort that we're able to realize through these,
1:01:25 these partnerships,
1:01:26 uh,
1:01:26 described
1:01:27 so far in the presentation
1:01:28 is being able to bring high frequency data to this.
1:01:31 So,
1:01:31 each of the,
1:01:32 the countries were,
1:01:33 uh,
1:01:34 including the climate resilience window are going to be doing at least 10 rounds
1:01:37 of high frequency data collection,
1:01:39 allowing us to understand not just one impact from baseline to endline,
1:01:42 but the multiple impacts realized throughout the course of the evaluation.
1:01:46 And the last exciting piece of this is,
1:01:49 uh,
1:01:49 doing coordinated evaluations across the most important contexts.
1:01:52 So the climate resilience window
1:01:54 includes ***,
1:01:55 Mali,
1:01:55 South Sudan,
1:01:56 and Rwanda,
1:01:57 allowing us to compare communities with these types
1:01:59 of resilience livelihood support against communities that don't,
1:02:02 collecting data from over 300 communities and 10,000 households,
1:02:05 each with over 10
1:02:07 high frequency surveys.
1:02:09 So,
1:02:09 what does this look like?
1:02:10 We're gonna zoom in on the case of *** to provide a flavor for what
1:02:13 the impact evaluation learning looks like uh in the short time we have today.
1:02:18 So,
1:02:18 uh,
1:02:18 in our first high-frequency round we did just after
1:02:21 programming started in *** in May of 2021,
1:02:24 when we compare the food security of
1:02:26 the group receiving resilience livelihood programs through FFA
1:02:30 against the control group who didn't,
1:02:31 we can measure the impact,
1:02:33 the early impact
1:02:34 of this program on food security.
1:02:36 So the fact that this dot comes above the red zero line
1:02:39 means
1:02:40 good news.
1:02:41 Uh,
1:02:41 WFP's programming is improving food security over the
1:02:44 control group who's not receiving those programs.
1:02:46 But if we're interested in dynamic impacts and how this
1:02:49 changes over time as we go through seasons and shocks,
1:02:52 we're interested in whether this impact is gonna grow,
1:02:54 shrink,
1:02:54 or change over time.
1:02:56 So when we started to measure
1:02:57 multiple rounds and see these impacts evolve,
1:03:00 as people
1:03:01 continue to receive their transfers and we move into the main agricultural season,
1:03:05 we started to see a surprising finding at first,
1:03:07 but the impacts were getting smaller over time,
1:03:10 uh,
1:03:10 and shrinking as we moved into the main season.
1:03:13 But then as we finished our first cycle of FFFA programming,
1:03:16 so people have received their full transfers and we moved
1:03:19 out of the ad season into the post-harvest season,
1:03:22 we saw that impacts emerged uh and became positive on food security.
1:03:28 So this at first prompted the question,
1:03:30 um,
1:03:31 after the first few rounds,
1:03:32 is this improvement we're seeing
1:03:34 just spurious or are we gonna see this again?
1:03:36 So the high frequency data allows us to fast forward our movie
1:03:40 on impacts,
1:03:41 um,
1:03:42 following,
1:03:43 uh,
1:03:43 a 2nd round of transfers and following the 2nd agricultural season,
1:03:46 and we see the same pattern here in *** emerge
1:03:49 where the impacts were getting smaller as we moved into the 2nd cycle
1:03:53 and into the main agricultural season.
1:03:55 But then reappeared uh at the end of the,
1:03:58 the,
1:03:59 uh,
1:03:59 cycle and moving out of the post-harvest season.
1:04:02 So what did we,
1:04:03 we learned from this,
1:04:04 uh,
1:04:04 first cycle of high frequency surveys in ***?
1:04:08 There's this consistent pattern that's,
1:04:10 uh,
1:04:10 impacts were the same,
1:04:11 concentrated in the,
1:04:13 in particular parts of the year and repeated,
1:04:15 uh,
1:04:15 pattern over time.
1:04:17 Uh,
1:04:17 what does this tell us?
1:04:19 It tells us that there may be a role of seasonality or timing of the,
1:04:22 of the impacts relative to the FFA cycles.
1:04:25 And so thinking about what's happening in
1:04:27 these particular seasons and what we're doing
1:04:29 and how we're targeting these seasons may
1:04:31 be important for maximizing these impacts.
1:04:33 Being able to see the impacts over two years
1:04:36 also helps us start to separate the role of seasonality from the role of shocks.
1:04:39 So for example,
1:04:40 seeing that the impact is similar
1:04:42 in 2022,
1:04:43 which was a relatively normal agricultural year compared to 2021,
1:04:47 where there were rainfall failures,
1:04:49 tells us that the,
1:04:50 the role of seasonality on this particular measure
1:04:53 might be dominating the role of shocks,
1:04:55 at least as experienced in these two roles.
1:04:58 So,
1:04:58 I wanted to wrap up with what does this mean for programming?
1:05:00 What can programming do with novel unique data like this?
1:05:04 First of all,
1:05:05 uh,
1:05:06 on the contribution of the high frequency data,
1:05:07 it tells us that impacts do seem to be changing over time.
1:05:10 So,
1:05:10 if we were not collecting data in this way,
1:05:13 not taking This approach,
1:05:14 we might have made entirely different conclusions based on when we decided to
1:05:18 collect our data and that's gonna be really important for thinking about impact.
1:05:21 So understanding
1:05:22 not just the single impact,
1:05:24 but how impacts change over time is important for understanding
1:05:28 programming like this.
1:05:29 Specific findings that we can learn from
1:05:31 this suggest the influence of seasonality,
1:05:34 which may mean that there are gains to timing.
1:05:36 So really thinking about if we're seeing
1:05:38 impacts come from the post-harvest offseason.
1:05:41 Uh,
1:05:41 when food might be more available but labor opportunities are less,
1:05:45 might be more important for maximizing the impacts.
1:05:48 Also starting to suggest possible gains from targeting,
1:05:50 so seeing the specific profile of households
1:05:53 that drive these patterns,
1:05:55 give us insights into how we can maximize these impacts.
1:05:58 Finding
1:05:59 uh that non-agricultural households have the biggest
1:06:02 impacts in the offseason gives us,
1:06:03 uh,
1:06:04 insights on who we should target
1:06:06 to maximize or Or multiplier impacts.
1:06:08 And finally,
1:06:09 it's contributing to the emerging agenda that Jonas,
1:06:11 uh,
1:06:12 very briefly highlighted
1:06:13 coming out of this resilience window on forecast-based financing.
1:06:16 So thinking,
1:06:17 um,
1:06:18 not just about the chronic,
1:06:19 uh,
1:06:20 cases,
1:06:20 but about the strategic cases where we invest specifically
1:06:23 in the context where there are big shocks,
1:06:26 uh,
1:06:26 at the moment of the shock,
1:06:27 uh,
1:06:28 and understand whether the impacts,
1:06:29 uh,
1:06:30 as measured this way change
1:06:31 in those contexts.
1:06:33 That's a very brief,
1:06:34 uh,
1:06:35 highlight of a lot of work we're doing,
1:06:37 but I,
1:06:37 I wanna make sure we give,
1:06:38 uh,
1:06:39 time to Florence to discuss the gender equality and women's empowerment,
1:06:42 uh,
1:06:42 agenda.
1:06:45 Thank you.
1:06:46 Is it OK to keep going,
1:06:48 or you want to take a break?
1:06:49 or you have a question or any clarification before,
1:06:52 anything you
1:06:54 keep going.
1:06:55 I mean,
1:06:55 we have about discussing.
1:06:58 OK,
1:06:58 that's a beautiful picture of Rwanda.
1:07:02 So,
1:07:02 now I'm gonna switch to the gender window uh results,
1:07:06 uh,
1:07:06 and I titled this Cash that Empowers.
1:07:08 Uh,
1:07:08 there are lots of people in this room,
1:07:10 I mean lots of people,
1:07:10 a handful of people in this room who have contributed
1:07:12 to this work and as well as Paul's work,
1:07:14 we
1:07:15 didn't put their names because then the whole slideshow could be their names,
1:07:18 but,
1:07:18 uh,
1:07:19 thank you for everyone at the World Bank who has contributed to this.
1:07:22 Um,
1:07:23 so,
1:07:23 Cash and Powers,
1:07:24 why this title?
1:07:26 So we know that gender gaps in economic
1:07:28 opportunities and economy and autonomy are pretty large,
1:07:31 right?
1:07:31 So we,
1:07:32 you know,
1:07:32 there are lots of graphs that people
1:07:34 put in a lot of gender reports that show that
1:07:36 women and men do not have equal access to economic opportunities
1:07:39 that can take the form of education,
1:07:42 access to the labor market,
1:07:43 or simply access to,
1:07:45 you know,
1:07:45 making simple decisions,
1:07:47 everyday decisions,
1:07:48 consuming,
1:07:48 uh,
1:07:49 the same share of the,
1:07:51 the household income as,
1:07:52 uh,
1:07:52 their,
1:07:53 their husbands,
1:07:53 things like that.
1:07:54 And this is,
1:07:55 this poses a problem because we know that
1:07:57 men and women make different choices over consumption,
1:07:59 for example.
1:08:00 So
1:08:01 we know from a large amount of data
1:08:03 that women are more likely to spend money
1:08:04 on,
1:08:05 you know,
1:08:06 education,
1:08:07 health,
1:08:07 things like that.
1:08:07 So as we increase
1:08:09 women's autonomy,
1:08:10 we really affect human development uh on a large scale potentially.
1:08:14 Um,
1:08:14 and,
1:08:14 and so
1:08:15 we also think that,
1:08:16 you know,
1:08:17 because of the economic,
1:08:18 uh,
1:08:19 gaps that are created by this lack of investment,
1:08:21 this underinvestment in human development,
1:08:23 etc.
1:08:24 we think these are economically inefficient gaps,
1:08:27 but they're also just unjust,
1:08:28 right?
1:08:29 Women should have as much autonomy and as much,
1:08:31 uh,
1:08:31 economic decision power as men.
1:08:34 So when we started working uh with the WFPN and this is our first uh window idea,
1:08:39 um,
1:08:40 the question from,
1:08:41 from programming,
1:08:42 and I think this is,
1:08:42 we have the same question at the World Bank is,
1:08:44 you know,
1:08:44 can cash transfers which we're implementing on a very large scale
1:08:48 have long lasting impacts on women's empowerment,
1:08:50 right?
1:08:50 What can we do?
1:08:51 And so the gender team,
1:08:52 the cash team,
1:08:53 you know,
1:08:53 really consulted with us.
1:08:55 We did a long
1:08:56 Uh,
1:08:56 you know,
1:08:57 literature review,
1:08:58 uh,
1:08:58 Paul was,
1:08:59 uh,
1:08:59 key part of this with Jonas.
1:09:01 We really reviewed all the literature we had
1:09:03 on linking gender outcomes to cash transfers.
1:09:06 And what we found from this literature review is that,
1:09:08 you know,
1:09:08 just putting cash in a woman's hands that had been
1:09:11 done through the same type of experiments we're presenting today
1:09:15 had no impact really on women's agents.
1:09:18 What we saw though in this data
1:09:19 is that just comparing the impact of putting cash in
1:09:22 a woman's hand versus the impact of earned income.
1:09:25 So when a woman goes out,
1:09:26 works,
1:09:27 makes an income and spends it,
1:09:29 the impacts on autonomy of
1:09:31 working are much larger.
1:09:33 But this is not
1:09:34 a causal evidence,
1:09:35 right?
1:09:36 Maybe these women are working because they have more autonomy to start with.
1:09:38 So all we're picking up is just the fact that
1:09:41 some women are more empowered than others,
1:09:42 and
1:09:43 you know,
1:09:43 it doesn't mean that making them work is going to increase their autonomy.
1:09:48 But that gave us an idea,
1:09:49 right?
1:09:50 What if
1:09:51 making,
1:09:52 I mean,
1:09:52 allowing women
1:09:53 to engage into,
1:09:54 you know,
1:09:55 outside work,
1:09:56 outside home work,
1:09:58 could actually,
1:09:59 you know,
1:09:59 increase their autonomy,
1:10:00 their agency.
1:10:01 And so that is exactly the question that,
1:10:03 that we started to ask,
1:10:04 that started to be formulated and thinking about the programming,
1:10:07 an opportunity came up,
1:10:08 right?
1:10:09 That as Paul described
1:10:10 this uh food assistance,
1:10:12 uh,
1:10:13 food assistance for asset programs really provide this opportunity
1:10:17 of engaging,
1:10:17 engaging women in work that's outside the household.
1:10:21 Which is very atypical to the,
1:10:23 in the countries where we work,
1:10:24 where most women
1:10:25 are providing labor to their farm or through,
1:10:28 you know,
1:10:29 just providing household chores and not just
1:10:31 but providing household chores to the household,
1:10:33 and they have very little,
1:10:34 uh,
1:10:35 you know,
1:10:35 tied to the labor market outside their home.
1:10:37 Uh,
1:10:37 so this is in
1:10:39 similar context as those that Paul described.
1:10:41 We started this window in Haiti,
1:10:42 El Salvador,
1:10:43 Kenya,
1:10:43 Rwanda.
1:10:44 Today I'm going to present some.
1:10:45 Findings from
1:10:46 Rwanda and El Salvador,
1:10:47 which are a little ahead of the other countries,
1:10:49 but we're gonna find very similar findings across these two
1:10:53 very different places.
1:10:54 I mean at baseline we found very different levels of autonomy across this space.
1:10:58 And so that's gonna allow us to generalize these findings
1:11:01 and give you
1:11:02 kind of a programming recommendation that's gonna have,
1:11:04 you know,
1:11:04 implications for,
1:11:05 for the whole programming and not just the developing countries.
1:11:08 So then the research questions are very simple.
1:11:10 That we started to ask,
1:11:11 you know,
1:11:11 what is the impact of engaging in food for asset,
1:11:13 food assistance for assets on women's social and economic empowerment,
1:11:17 as well as,
1:11:18 of course,
1:11:18 the household income because eventually this FFA
1:11:21 as Paul described,
1:11:22 the goal is to increase income,
1:11:24 therefore food security and welfare,
1:11:25 right?
1:11:26 And then the long term question is more,
1:11:28 what is the impact of offering the work
1:11:31 component to women instead of men in the household
1:11:34 on
1:11:35 their social and economic empowerment,
1:11:36 on these women's social and economic empower.
1:11:39 So what do we find?
1:11:40 So during the program,
1:11:41 we find as expected
1:11:44 that FFA improves food security,
1:11:45 the,
1:11:45 you know,
1:11:46 the cash transfer element works,
1:11:47 does its job,
1:11:48 it does it as well as any other,
1:11:51 you know,
1:11:51 cash transfer we can study.
1:11:52 Uh,
1:11:53 we have a large meta-analysis of cash transfer,
1:11:54 we find basically the same,
1:11:56 uh,
1:11:56 effect
1:11:57 and in the,
1:11:57 you know,
1:11:58 in the magnitude of transfer we study
1:12:00 that equivalent,
1:12:01 that's the equivalent of increasing household.
1:12:02 Consumption by 12%.
1:12:04 That's a powerful result.
1:12:06 And when we ask,
1:12:07 uh,
1:12:07 in,
1:12:07 in focus group meetings,
1:12:09 we asked,
1:12:09 you know,
1:12:10 women who took part in the project,
1:12:11 how this increase in,
1:12:12 uh,
1:12:13 in,
1:12:14 in income affected their lives.
1:12:15 They reported that,
1:12:16 you know,
1:12:16 they were able to buy medicine for their children when they were shocked.
1:12:19 So these are really powerful stories from the field of how
1:12:22 this,
1:12:23 you know,
1:12:23 relief is helping them,
1:12:24 uh,
1:12:25 with their day to day shocks.
1:12:27 But then we
1:12:28 ask
1:12:28 what happens in those households in which we assign the work to women instead of men.
1:12:33 Uh,
1:12:33 and I want to say that at baseline when we started to look,
1:12:36 you know,
1:12:37 at
1:12:37 those decisions,
1:12:38 intra-household decisions.
1:12:39 So basically the WFP,
1:12:41 you know,
1:12:41 there's a group
1:12:42 meeting,
1:12:42 people decide
1:12:43 that they want to take part in the program
1:12:45 and then really,
1:12:46 I mean,
1:12:46 typically the decision is left to the household as
1:12:48 to who should participate in the work component.
1:12:51 And in 80% of cases.
1:12:52 It's the man
1:12:53 who shows up,
1:12:53 right?
1:12:54 So,
1:12:55 you know,
1:12:55 this was a huge
1:12:56 shift,
1:12:57 right,
1:12:57 uh,
1:12:58 in,
1:12:58 uh,
1:12:59 in participation among women,
1:13:01 and what this shows is that
1:13:03 this is possible.
1:13:03 First,
1:13:04 I want to say this is possible.
1:13:05 We see a large increase in participation from women,
1:13:07 so there's huge compliance to this reservation.
1:13:11 So it's,
1:13:11 it's not something that's impossible because when we
1:13:14 started with the programming,
1:13:15 the question was,
1:13:15 can you even
1:13:16 make this woman,
1:13:17 you know,
1:13:18 is this sufficient to make them,
1:13:19 uh,
1:13:20 able to participate?
1:13:21 It worked.
1:13:22 Uh,
1:13:22 it increased their income by 31%,
1:13:25 so this is a large increase,
1:13:26 you know,
1:13:26 they're not fantastically large cash transfers,
1:13:29 but as a share of what they were earning at this time,
1:13:31 it's huge.
1:13:31 Uh,
1:13:32 what we see is then
1:13:34 during the,
1:13:34 the time of the transfer,
1:13:37 making the women work.
1:13:39 Basically fully closes the gender gap in decision making over consumption.
1:13:42 So,
1:13:42 men and women have equal agency over the income,
1:13:46 OK.
1:13:46 They make equal decisions.
1:13:48 And
1:13:49 less positive,
1:13:49 but very temporary,
1:13:51 we find that men don't like it so much.
1:13:53 So as they sign,
1:13:56 so
1:13:56 as they sign,
1:13:57 you know,
1:13:57 as they sign,
1:13:58 men are not persuaded that women should be working.
1:14:00 They're not persuaded that women should be making these choices,
1:14:03 otherwise they would be,
1:14:04 right?
1:14:04 Presumably.
1:14:05 So we find a little bit of what we call
1:14:08 a temporary backup,
1:14:09 right?
1:14:09 But I'm going to tell you a positive story.
1:14:11 3 months after the program.
1:14:13 These women are not,
1:14:14 these men and women are not taking part in this work program anymore.
1:14:17 They're just doing back to their normal status of business.
1:14:20 So of course,
1:14:21 as the,
1:14:21 the transfer,
1:14:22 you know,
1:14:22 the transfers were not fantastically large.
1:14:24 These are very handful households,
1:14:26 so they,
1:14:27 they consume the transfer.
1:14:28 So we don't see any impact,
1:14:30 any long lasting impact on consumption or food security,
1:14:33 and you know,
1:14:34 this,
1:14:34 the women in the program are back to
1:14:36 uh the type of work they were doing before.
1:14:39 But what we find
1:14:41 is
1:14:42 persistence of this reversal of the gender gap and in fact,
1:14:45 in the longer term,
1:14:46 if anything,
1:14:47 women are making more,
1:14:48 have more say than men
1:14:50 in how to consume the,
1:14:51 the income.
1:14:52 So,
1:14:53 you know,
1:14:53 our interpretation is that
1:14:55 this shift
1:14:56 in,
1:14:56 in decision making power,
1:14:58 although temporary,
1:14:59 had long lasting effect
1:15:01 through sort of,
1:15:01 you know,
1:15:02 telling the,
1:15:03 the men
1:15:04 that this woman.
1:15:04 Understand its value,
1:15:05 it's valuable.
1:15:06 You can value it and they have autonomy.
1:15:08 So anyway,
1:15:09 we're working through,
1:15:10 you know,
1:15:10 different models.
1:15:11 This is more for the economists in the room that can sort of uh explain this,
1:15:15 but we're pretty,
1:15:16 you know,
1:15:16 it,
1:15:16 it makes sense with the way theory is written in economics book.
1:15:20 Uh,
1:15:20 so we're,
1:15:21 we're really happy to see this
1:15:22 and you know,
1:15:23 people say ultimately the project
1:15:25 came to strengthen the relationship as we have as a couple.
1:15:28 The changes were one of strength.
1:15:30 So this is from the men,
1:15:31 uh,
1:15:32 you know,
1:15:32 firstly,
1:15:33 the perception was
1:15:34 that sometime,
1:15:35 uh,
1:15:35 of sexism,
1:15:36 uh,
1:15:37 but when you participate in this type of project
1:15:39 that undoubtedly changes,
1:15:40 uh,
1:15:41 and you have a little more awareness.
1:15:43 So,
1:15:43 you know,
1:15:44 qualitative evidence,
1:15:45 but I think,
1:15:45 uh,
1:15:46 powerful speaking to that effect.
1:15:48 And again,
1:15:48 we really see these effects in El Salvador and Rwanda are vastly different,
1:15:52 uh,
1:15:53 situations at baseline,
1:15:54 so really positive.
1:15:55 Um,
1:15:56 and so I want to speak to the,
1:15:57 this change in attitude.
1:15:59 So we said,
1:15:59 you know,
1:15:59 the men who are not extremely positive about the shifts,
1:16:02 but actually that was very temporary and in the longer run,
1:16:05 it's exactly as the quote says,
1:16:07 sort of more acceptance,
1:16:08 uh,
1:16:08 replaces this,
1:16:09 uh,
1:16:10 this early
1:16:11 sort of
1:16:12 disagreements.
1:16:13 Uh,
1:16:13 and we see,
1:16:14 uh,
1:16:15 some improvement in well-being,
1:16:17 uh,
1:16:17 among women as well.
1:16:18 So like lowering of stress
1:16:21 among these women participants in the program.
1:16:23 So anyway,
1:16:24 I want to leave you with the key takeaways,
1:16:25 but I think,
1:16:26 you know,
1:16:26 in terms of programming,
1:16:27 this is,
1:16:27 and we have a very nice uh graph that we
1:16:30 made to kind of summarize the effects uh after the program
1:16:33 that
1:16:34 essentially
1:16:34 these temporary effects,
1:16:36 so these programs are very powerful as we said earlier,
1:16:38 you know,
1:16:39 not just.
1:16:40 Just
1:16:40 providing relief but potentially having other
1:16:42 spillovers on the participants' life,
1:16:44 on the beneficiaries' lives,
1:16:46 uh,
1:16:46 that are really worth documenting and,
1:16:48 and really strengthening the narrative of these are not just
1:16:51 assistance programs,
1:16:52 but they're really economic development program.
1:16:53 They're shifting things uh in the longer run even if.
1:16:56 Even if they're temporary,
1:16:58 4,
1:17:00 so for now we have full data sets on 2,
1:17:03 we're collecting data in Kenya and we're starting work in Haiti.
1:17:06 So we're,
1:17:07 you know,
1:17:07 our ambitions are to keep going,
1:17:09 collect more data,
1:17:10 uh,
1:17:10 potentially refine the design,
1:17:13 uh,
1:17:13 slightly,
1:17:14 but this is,
1:17:15 so we'd love to hear your thoughts because this is an opportunity to change
1:17:17 what we're doing.
1:17:20 That's it.
1:17:21 Thank you.
1:17:23 Thank you very much.
1:17:24 Um,
1:17:25 yeah,
1:17:26 we have,
1:17:26 uh,
1:17:27 we have Luis the minister and also Lonie on the line,
1:17:31 um,
1:17:32 uh,
1:17:33 to provide some initial comments,
1:17:34 and then we are happy to open up,
1:17:37 but you know,
1:17:37 if you have a two hands question,
1:17:39 we're happy to also provide the space for the two hand question.
1:17:44 Showing the presentation.
1:17:46 So maybe,
1:17:48 maybe we go first online with
1:17:51 give lowly an opportunity to react.
1:17:59 Maybe we,
1:18:00 we stop the presentation.
1:18:01 We cannot hear you.
1:18:03 I think you're still muted.
1:18:04 You know,
1:18:06 my eyes are not good enough to see,
1:18:07 so maybe she can't speak.
1:18:11 We have to mute slowly because there's,
1:18:15 yeah,
1:18:15 we have to.
1:18:23 All right,
1:18:23 I think you should be,
1:18:26 she's locked.
1:18:27 They have to make her a presenter on the IT side,
1:18:29 but maybe we start with Luis and we can try to see if we can sure,
1:18:31 we're gonna try to solve the technical problems,
1:18:35 knowledge,
1:18:35 and so we're gonna go to Luis.
1:18:39 Well,
1:18:39 thank you,
1:18:39 thank you for.
1:18:41 inviting me today and thank you for the opportunity just to,
1:18:45 uh,
1:18:46 you know,
1:18:46 share and learn from,
1:18:47 from this partnership.
1:18:50 I mean,
1:18:50 first I will state the obvious thing that you like
1:18:53 having
1:18:54 Impact evaluations are just so
1:18:57 incredibly valuable
1:18:59 because
1:19:00 again,
1:19:00 we,
1:19:01 we oftentimes
1:19:02 um
1:19:04 You know,
1:19:04 on,
1:19:04 on the operational side,
1:19:06 we engage in all kinds of activities thinking that
1:19:09 uh we're doing the right thing and that what we're doing is meaningful and that we
1:19:13 uh are going,
1:19:14 you know,
1:19:14 we expected certain types of results,
1:19:16 we're,
1:19:16 you know,
1:19:17 driven by
1:19:18 the timelines and the delivery of outputs and,
1:19:22 and ultimately,
1:19:23 you know,
1:19:23 it's,
1:19:24 it's,
1:19:24 uh,
1:19:24 um.
1:19:26 Impacted rates always brings us back to sort of really what
1:19:30 what makes a difference and what made things work,
1:19:32 uh,
1:19:32 you know,
1:19:33 how,
1:19:33 you know,
1:19:34 I think that your,
1:19:34 your presentation Paul was super valuable in terms
1:19:36 of how things change over time and,
1:19:39 you know,
1:19:39 so it depends on when you measure what you measure,
1:19:41 how you measure,
1:19:42 uh,
1:19:43 so having sort of this,
1:19:44 uh,
1:19:45 multidimensional sort of approaches is always
1:19:47 sort of instructive and ultimately.
1:19:49 You know,
1:19:50 so the goal is,
1:19:50 is then sort of,
1:19:51 you know,
1:19:51 uh,
1:19:52 uh,
1:19:52 uh,
1:19:52 how to feed all of this
1:19:54 knowledge and information back to
1:19:57 sort of implementation,
1:19:58 yeah,
1:19:58 so I think that I know,
1:19:59 I,
1:19:59 uh,
1:20:00 uh,
1:20:00 as,
1:20:00 as a,
1:20:01 again,
1:20:01 as a reminder,
1:20:02 you know,
1:20:02 as,
1:20:03 as we do all of these studies,
1:20:04 it's,
1:20:04 it's,
1:20:05 you know,
1:20:05 putting also the effort around sort of how to feed that back into
1:20:09 the policymakers that make decisions or the,
1:20:11 the people on the ground that sort of actually,
1:20:13 you know,
1:20:14 sort of,
1:20:14 uh,
1:20:14 are responsible for.
1:20:16 Delivering
1:20:17 services to people that make a difference and,
1:20:19 and ultimately change lives.
1:20:22 Um.
1:20:24 I,
1:20:24 I,
1:20:25 um,
1:20:26 so,
1:20:26 you know,
1:20:26 as,
1:20:27 uh,
1:20:27 as another sort of line of,
1:20:28 of,
1:20:29 uh,
1:20:29 reactions,
1:20:30 I mean,
1:20:31 I think that obviously the the partnership between
1:20:32 the bank and WFP is super valuable.
1:20:35 It has,
1:20:36 um,
1:20:37 oh,
1:20:37 you know,
1:20:37 it,
1:20:38 it ebbs and flows and,
1:20:39 and comes and goes over time,
1:20:40 but I think again to being able to sustain this sort of,
1:20:43 you know,
1:20:43 relationships it's,
1:20:44 it's really important.
1:20:45 Uh,
1:20:46 also,
1:20:46 because
1:20:47 our own constualizations of
1:20:50 both,
1:20:50 both how our agencies operate and work and what they prioritize as well as our
1:20:56 understanding and framing of the types of interventions that
1:20:59 we're engaged with shift over time again I remember,
1:21:02 um.
1:21:03 You know,
1:21:03 2025 years ago where,
1:21:06 you know,
1:21:06 school feeding was really sort of about,
1:21:09 you know,
1:21:09 incentivizing access,
1:21:10 you know,
1:21:10 bringing kids to school,
1:21:12 and again I think that our,
1:21:13 our,
1:21:14 uh,
1:21:16 understanding and our conceptualization of school feeding programs
1:21:19 have sort of really truly evolved in,
1:21:21 in,
1:21:21 in a wide variety of ways,
1:21:22 in ways that sort of,
1:21:23 you know.
1:21:24 Uh,
1:21:24 uh,
1:21:25 uh,
1:21:25 about economic empowerment,
1:21:27 about sort of,
1:21:27 you know,
1:21:28 having,
1:21:28 uh,
1:21:29 uh,
1:21:29 uh,
1:21:29 the impact that it has on,
1:21:30 on culture and communities,
1:21:32 the impact that it has on,
1:21:33 on,
1:21:33 on,
1:21:33 uh,
1:21:34 uh,
1:21:34 job generation and the ways in that,
1:21:36 that sort of,
1:21:37 you know,
1:21:38 school feeding might impact of,
1:21:39 uh,
1:21:40 cognitive performance of kids in schools and,
1:21:42 and so on and so forth,
1:21:43 things that,
1:21:43 that were not.
1:21:45 We we're not thinking about,
1:21:47 uh,
1:21:48 uh,
1:21:49 years back and,
1:21:50 and again I think that as,
1:21:51 as the more data that we have sort of the,
1:21:53 the greater the shifts
1:21:55 that we can do in terms of how to really sort of,
1:21:58 uh,
1:21:59 use these programs as entry points to
1:22:02 serve you know multi-dimensional sort of impacts,
1:22:05 um.
1:22:06 And,
1:22:07 uh,
1:22:08 you know,
1:22:08 as,
1:22:08 and as a final thought,
1:22:10 you know,
1:22:10 I,
1:22:11 I,
1:22:11 um,
1:22:12 Um,
1:22:13 it's great to focus on outcomes,
1:22:15 and again I think that the sort of the,
1:22:16 the,
1:22:17 the kinds of results that you've
1:22:19 been talking about are really sort of important in terms of,
1:22:21 you know,
1:22:21 sort of the
1:22:22 changes in values and attitudes and behavior and,
1:22:25 and so on and so forth.
1:22:26 I think that,
1:22:27 that,
1:22:27 that also,
1:22:28 uh,
1:22:29 not,
1:22:29 not to lose sight about the importance of doing.
1:22:32 Uh,
1:22:33 process evaluations,
1:22:34 I think that how we do things matter oftentimes,
1:22:36 sort of,
1:22:36 you know,
1:22:37 results
1:22:38 are affected,
1:22:38 as you all said,
1:22:39 are affected by all kinds of
1:22:41 stuff,
1:22:42 uh,
1:22:43 and so again having a,
1:22:44 a deep understanding of,
1:22:45 of how these programs roll out and what,
1:22:47 what drives,
1:22:48 uh,
1:22:49 the implementation is,
1:22:50 is,
1:22:51 is something that
1:22:52 us as an institution,
1:22:53 the World Bank,
1:22:54 I mean.
1:22:54 Um,
1:22:56 can lose sight and,
1:22:57 and,
1:22:57 and ultimately sort of shape,
1:22:59 um,
1:23:00 you sort of what,
1:23:01 what we see in the end line.
1:23:02 Uh,
1:23:03 and so
1:23:04 again,
1:23:04 survive as we go forth again to,
1:23:06 to really sort of think as,
1:23:08 as,
1:23:08 uh,
1:23:08 as the,
1:23:09 the,
1:23:09 the big tent of evaluations and how to really sort of can being able to,
1:23:13 to focus
1:23:14 on,
1:23:14 on the various parts that drive to the ultimately sort
1:23:17 of what we care about which are the ultimate results
1:23:20 and I'll pause there.
1:23:21 Thank you.
1:23:22 Yeah,
1:23:22 thank you,
1:23:22 Luis.
1:23:25 Very,
1:23:25 very well said,
1:23:27 Londy,
1:23:29 back to you.
1:23:29 I hope now it works.
1:23:32 Yeah,
1:23:32 I,
1:23:32 uh,
1:23:32 can you hear me
1:23:33 perfectly.
1:23:34 OK,
1:23:34 yeah.
1:23:34 OK,
1:23:35 great.
1:23:35 Thank you so much,
1:23:36 Arianna,
1:23:36 for the invitation,
1:23:37 uh,
1:23:37 to participate in this discussion.
1:23:40 Um,
1:23:41 for those that do not know me,
1:23:42 I'm Lolia Rivas,
1:23:43 and I'm the practice manager for the Global Unit in Social Protection and Jobs,
1:23:48 um,
1:23:48 and I just wanna share a few quick reflections on
1:23:51 how the work presented today connects to our work in SPJ,
1:23:56 um,
1:23:56 and then I will share also some reactions to the presentation.
1:24:00 First of all,
1:24:00 I,
1:24:01 I very much welcome the evidence generation on,
1:24:03 on food for assets or what we usually call
1:24:06 at the World Bank public works.
1:24:09 Um,
1:24:09 for us a public works is a critical element in,
1:24:12 in,
1:24:13 in our larger
1:24:14 adaptive social protection toolbox,
1:24:17 um,
1:24:18 and I think in addition to the social protection angle and,
1:24:21 and,
1:24:21 you know,
1:24:22 with the climate crisis now,
1:24:23 uh,
1:24:24 uh,
1:24:25 uh.
1:24:25 With us in the middle of this climate crisis,
1:24:27 I think green public works is one of the few
1:24:30 social protection tools that can actually contribute
1:24:32 to climate mitigate mitigation with all the others
1:24:35 mostly contributing to climate adaptation.
1:24:38 However,
1:24:38 public works
1:24:40 have been
1:24:41 Often criticized and so I think it's important uh to continue building the evidence
1:24:46 on where and how
1:24:48 they can be effective.
1:24:50 So
1:24:50 this is a,
1:24:51 a,
1:24:51 a really welcome effort
1:24:53 um thank you so much.
1:24:55 um.
1:24:56 The findings of,
1:24:57 of,
1:24:57 uh,
1:24:57 Florence and Paul's presentations are encouraging
1:25:00 and,
1:25:01 and they connect nicely to a report that we're working
1:25:04 on in SBJ called The Future of Public Works.
1:25:07 Um,
1:25:08 and this report covers innovations related to climate smart pub public works.
1:25:12 It covers digital public works
1:25:14 and also public works,
1:25:16 uh,
1:25:16 that produce uh care services.
1:25:19 And we find
1:25:20 that no matter what public good or service
1:25:23 the program is designed to produce,
1:25:25 uh,
1:25:26 public work programs
1:25:27 are
1:25:28 paying increased attention to closing gender gaps,
1:25:31 um,
1:25:32 and to prevent,
1:25:33 uh,
1:25:33 the backlash against women and empowering them.
1:25:36 So let me highlight four effective design features of our
1:25:40 report and how they match with with with your findings.
1:25:43 One is on ex ante consultations.
1:25:46 I think it's important to engage communities and their leaders
1:25:49 to build support for women's participation,
1:25:52 um,
1:25:53 and,
1:25:53 uh,
1:25:54 you know,
1:25:54 to,
1:25:55 to,
1:25:55 to mitigate the potential backlash,
1:25:57 uh,
1:25:58 uh,
1:25:58 from social norms regarding women's work.
1:26:01 Um,
1:26:01 the second one.
1:26:03 Is,
1:26:04 um,
1:26:04 equal pay for equal work,
1:26:06 paying women directly
1:26:08 and ideally into their own accounts can help
1:26:11 ensure that they are able to retain control.
1:26:14 Um,
1:26:14 third one is,
1:26:16 uh,
1:26:16 providing on-site childcare.
1:26:18 Um,
1:26:19 it's key to enable the full participation of women
1:26:21 with,
1:26:22 with young children.
1:26:23 Um,
1:26:24 and it also contributes to early childhood development.
1:26:27 Um,
1:26:27 and then the fourth one,
1:26:29 the selection of assets,
1:26:31 uh,
1:26:31 as we go through the design of the programs is critical.
1:26:34 So it's,
1:26:35 it's important to make sure that the assets or the services created,
1:26:39 created by the public works,
1:26:41 um,
1:26:42 serve women's needs as well.
1:26:44 So with this context in mind,
1:26:46 uh,
1:26:48 I have a few questions and reflections for,
1:26:49 for the presenters.
1:26:51 Luis covered already school feeding in detail,
1:26:53 so
1:26:53 I will just focus on on on other dimensions.
1:26:57 On,
1:26:57 on Paul's presentation,
1:26:58 um,
1:26:59 I'd be curious to hear if the set of impact evaluations on dynamic impacts,
1:27:04 uh,
1:27:04 dig into the gender differences.
1:27:06 Uh,
1:27:07 we know that men and women,
1:27:08 boys and girls have different abilities to cope with shocks,
1:27:11 um,
1:27:12 and may also have different levels of resilience ex ante,
1:27:15 ex ante.
1:27:16 So it seems like a lost opportunity not to look at potential gender differences,
1:27:21 um,
1:27:21 in these evaluations.
1:27:24 On Florence's presentation,
1:27:26 um,
1:27:27 I think it's important for impact evaluations
1:27:29 to measure different dimensions of empowerment systematically.
1:27:33 The,
1:27:33 the,
1:27:34 there was a strong claim at the beginning of the presentation
1:27:37 that cash transfers have no impact on women empowerment,
1:27:41 um,
1:27:41 and I,
1:27:42 I believe there is mixed evidence on these,
1:27:45 uh,
1:27:45 the evaluations,
1:27:46 for example,
1:27:47 that show that.
1:27:48 Cast transfers
1:27:49 decrease gender-based violence
1:27:51 on average
1:27:52 um and and and this is a critical dimension of empowerment or lack thereof
1:27:58 so so it'd be important to to
1:28:02 to systematize um how we measure um empowerment
1:28:05 um for both presentations um
1:28:09 I guess on the two.
1:28:09 Two objectives that arguably differentiate public
1:28:13 public works from cash transfers,
1:28:15 um,
1:28:16 from naked cash transfers or cash transfers alone.
1:28:20 One is the quality of the asset produced
1:28:23 the other one is uh uh the skills built in the process and this includes
1:28:28 soft skills and hard skills,
1:28:30 um.
1:28:31 So traditional public works schemes have been criticized for both.
1:28:36 And so if you have any findings to share on,
1:28:39 on,
1:28:39 on either one of them.
1:28:41 Um,
1:28:42 I think it,
1:28:43 it,
1:28:43 mm,
1:28:44 I think Luis,
1:28:45 um,
1:28:45 alluded to this,
1:28:46 um,
1:28:47 the context and the enabling environment and,
1:28:50 and I believe,
1:28:50 uh,
1:28:51 um,
1:28:51 the presenters alluded to it too.
1:28:53 So how these evaluations can influence
1:28:57 not just how programs are designed
1:29:00 but also what are the policy implications of these impact evaluations?
1:29:04 How should the policy mix
1:29:06 be adjusted to optimize the impact of these programs?
1:29:09 In other words,
1:29:11 um.
1:29:12 What are the key policy and context elements that make the same intervention
1:29:17 succeed in one place and,
1:29:18 and,
1:29:18 and not in another.
1:29:20 Uh and I think this is an area where coordination with
1:29:23 with other development actors might be important.
1:29:27 Um
1:29:28 In addition to the policy mix and context,
1:29:31 the public works are usually just one element of a larger social protection effort,
1:29:37 um,
1:29:37 and this is is in addition to the many things that changed that Paul alluded to,
1:29:42 uh,
1:29:42 in the context of the intervention.
1:29:43 So households.
1:29:44 Received
1:29:45 a layer set of interventions that address the needs of different people,
1:29:48 people in the households
1:29:50 and that complement each other.
1:29:51 So it'd be important to understand how the evaluated intervention interacts
1:29:56 with these or the package of services available to the beneficiaries.
1:30:00 Um,
1:30:00 I'm almost done.
1:30:01 Uh,
1:30:01 I have one more,
1:30:03 uh,
1:30:03 on program design and eligibility.
1:30:05 Uh,
1:30:05 I think on one of the biggest challenges as programs scale up is determining
1:30:10 the target groups to be included and how
1:30:12 to prioritize those who need the support most,
1:30:16 um,
1:30:16 so I,
1:30:17 I think this is,
1:30:18 this is the prioritization of,
1:30:20 of program participants
1:30:22 is driven not just by the need but also by
1:30:25 policy and politics and,
1:30:26 and budget constraints,
1:30:28 um.
1:30:30 And then the,
1:30:30 the,
1:30:30 the sustainability of outcomes and financial sustainability.
1:30:33 I think this together with the scale-up potential
1:30:36 is the biggest struggle on most economic inclusion programs.
1:30:40 Uh,
1:30:41 so let me end by noting that we also have a partnership with DME.
1:30:45 Um,
1:30:46 I think Arianna mentioned it at the beginning,
1:30:49 um,
1:30:49 uh,
1:30:49 uh,
1:30:50 with their opening remarks,
1:30:52 uh,
1:30:53 and the intention is also to build the evidence on what works and what doesn't work
1:30:57 and when and where,
1:30:59 um,
1:30:59 from our economic inclusion programs,
1:31:01 so I think it might be helpful if it doesn't exist already
1:31:05 to integrate and,
1:31:06 and I believe Luis alluded to this as well.
1:31:09 To integrate the findings of all these efforts into maybe a
1:31:13 guidance note for teams that are designing
1:31:16 or implementing these type of programs,
1:31:18 um,
1:31:19 so if these already exist maybe just we just need to update,
1:31:22 er,
1:31:23 I update it with this new evidence,
1:31:25 uh,
1:31:26 and,
1:31:26 and what we need to make sure is that we disseminate it
1:31:29 widely,
1:31:30 um,
1:31:30 and in different ways.
1:31:32 And
1:31:32 this could be helpful for for the teams
1:31:34 to evaluate the trade-offs of different design features,
1:31:37 but also in their discussion with government counterparts to
1:31:40 to provide policy advice which goes back to my my point on
1:31:45 not just programs but policy
1:31:48 um on the reform needed reforms needed to
1:31:51 make these these program uh more effective.
1:31:54 So let me stop here
1:31:56 um thank you for um the invitation and I'm looking forward to the Q&A.
1:32:04 Thank you,
1:32:05 Lolly.
1:32:05 Um,
1:32:06 you know,
1:32:06 very,
1:32:06 very interesting points,
1:32:08 uh,
1:32:08 from,
1:32:08 uh,
1:32:09 well,
1:32:10 actually from everyone that has contributed to the discussion.
1:32:12 I,
1:32:13 I just wanted to,
1:32:14 um,
1:32:15 you know,
1:32:15 pick on a couple of your points regarding
1:32:18 the impact on women's empowerment.
1:32:20 Um,
1:32:21 this,
1:32:22 I think the statement is correct,
1:32:24 subject to the way people have been measuring empowerment in the past
1:32:29 and in fact,
1:32:30 um,
1:32:30 this has been a
1:32:31 Quite a bit of the,
1:32:32 we put quite a bit of thinking into
1:32:35 why the evaluations that were done on targeting the
1:32:38 open work program by academics actually did not find
1:32:41 any impacts on women's empowerment
1:32:44 and started digging a little further as you say,
1:32:46 it depends what you measure and how
1:32:48 and uh part of,
1:32:50 part of what we do is really developing the tools and,
1:32:53 and the,
1:32:54 and thinking very careful,
1:32:56 carefully about measurement.
1:32:57 Um,
1:32:58 to pick up
1:32:59 what others might have missed,
1:33:00 and it's part of the process,
1:33:02 it's not that one person is better than the other,
1:33:04 but it's part of,
1:33:05 you know,
1:33:05 an iterative process of research
1:33:07 that then leads to better,
1:33:08 better understanding of
1:33:10 how we measure and what frequencies
1:33:13 and,
1:33:13 and of course what we measure.
1:33:16 So this,
1:33:16 this is very well taken and uh
1:33:19 uh for example,
1:33:20 in our targeting the Ultraport program in Afghanistan,
1:33:23 we did find um massive impacts on women's empowerment,
1:33:27 but the modules of how to measure that
1:33:29 were uh much larger and,
1:33:32 and that learning has kind of infiltrated uh the rest of our program as well.
1:33:37 Um.
1:33:41 Very,
1:33:41 um,
1:33:43 and in terms of summarizing the evidence and also what is important to do,
1:33:47 um,
1:33:48 you know,
1:33:48 we are,
1:33:49 uh,
1:33:50 that point is
1:33:51 very,
1:33:52 very well taken and we are in the process of summarizing evidence in,
1:33:56 in many different
1:33:57 parts.
1:33:57 We just had,
1:33:58 for example,
1:33:59 a discussion with the,
1:34:00 with the Cote d'I Cote d'Ivoire country unit.
1:34:04 Where,
1:34:04 you know,
1:34:05 there have been evaluations all across the social protection
1:34:08 spectrum of intervention from the cash for work program,
1:34:11 dual,
1:34:12 dual uh apprenticeships and the economic inclusion program and now the,
1:34:17 the country team has kind of a matrix
1:34:20 of results and what can be expected from what interventions
1:34:24 and also
1:34:26 not just targeting the ones most in need but actually moving the target.
1:34:31 discussion towards
1:34:32 the population that can benefit the most
1:34:34 and so for example in Cote d'Iguar we find women can benefit
1:34:37 almost twice as much as men from a cash for work program,
1:34:40 um,
1:34:41 and thus
1:34:42 kind of increasing the targeting for women makes sense
1:34:46 both
1:34:47 for,
1:34:47 for,
1:34:48 you know,
1:34:48 economic reasons of returns,
1:34:50 but you know also to kind of meet,
1:34:52 um,
1:34:53 the,
1:34:54 um,
1:34:55 other objectives of.
1:34:56 Empowerment and so forth and so on.
1:34:58 So
1:34:59 it is obviously complex to just have a very
1:35:03 quick summary of
1:35:05 um
1:35:05 implementable solutions and so what we want to do is not just
1:35:09 to the notes but actually create
1:35:11 the institutional structures for conversations with
1:35:15 country teams and project teams that are
1:35:17 developing uh their concept and really help them
1:35:22 operationalize all the evidence that is out there,
1:35:24 um,
1:35:24 we cannot expect everybody
1:35:26 to live and breathe evidence
1:35:29 as we do.
1:35:30 And so kind of having these opportunities to really work
1:35:33 with teams and support them in this process is,
1:35:37 I,
1:35:37 I think very important and we want to be in the kitchen,
1:35:40 you know,
1:35:40 we want
1:35:41 DC
1:35:41 to be able to really contribute to the delivery of uh World Bank
1:35:46 projects and programs in a more,
1:35:48 uh,
1:35:48 direct way.
1:35:50 So,
1:35:50 I'm gonna open it up
1:35:51 for answers,
1:35:53 comments,
1:35:53 and other questions.
1:35:58 OK
1:36:00 OK,
1:36:01 maybe I'll start now.
1:36:04 My name is Krishna,
1:36:05 and actually I'm working on Sudan,
1:36:07 and we are actually preparing a new,
1:36:09 um,
1:36:10 uh,
1:36:10 social protection project which is both cash transfers
1:36:13 as well as,
1:36:14 uh,
1:36:14 labor intensive public works.
1:36:16 So there are two aspects of this stuff which you won't discuss.
1:36:20 So on the labor intensive public works,
1:36:22 of course,
1:36:22 in terms of the targeting,
1:36:23 we are working on agenda-focused,
1:36:25 you know,
1:36:26 targeting,
1:36:26 etc.
1:36:27 uh,
1:36:27 but what,
1:36:28 unfortunately I think it's a 2-year project,
1:36:30 it's not a five-year project,
1:36:32 and,
1:36:33 uh,
1:36:34 the
1:36:35 in in the labor intensive public works,
1:36:38 we are looking at,
1:36:39 uh,
1:36:40 not just the community,
1:36:41 the consumption smoothing which we're talking about.
1:36:45 But in terms of the community asset.
1:36:50 That that's one thing.
1:36:52 And the second one is we're also looking at
1:36:54 community cohesion when they come together and work.
1:36:56 So
1:36:56 that's our third focal point there.
1:36:59 So that's one part of it.
1:37:00 The reason also I'm here is because
1:37:03 in Sudan
1:37:04 currently there is a military coup and there is no transitional government.
1:37:08 So WFP is the recipient as well as the implementing agency.
1:37:13 So
1:37:14 we are very happy that at the institutional level that WFP and World Bank di,
1:37:19 you're,
1:37:19 you're working together.
1:37:20 So we also wanted to figure out how,
1:37:22 how can we leverage that
1:37:24 for impact evaluation
1:37:26 so that's the reason,
1:37:27 you know,
1:37:28 and if you have any,
1:37:29 any,
1:37:30 uh.
1:37:31 Let's say
1:37:32 evidence,
1:37:32 etc.
1:37:33 on climate liabilities.
1:37:34 So the
1:37:35 main idea of labor intensive public work for climate liabilities.
1:37:40 So we're picking some locality.
1:37:46 How do we do that?
1:37:51 Hi,
1:37:52 can I,
1:37:53 can I?
1:37:53 Yes,
1:37:53 we have a question online.
1:37:55 Can you introduce yourself?
1:37:57 Great.
1:37:57 Yes,
1:37:57 please.
1:37:58 Thank you so much.
1:37:58 I'm Mira Shaker.
1:38:00 I lead the World Bank's work on nutrition across the World Bank Group.
1:38:04 I'm
1:38:05 delighted to hear this conversation around impact evaluation
1:38:09 and evidence.
1:38:09 So,
1:38:10 uh,
1:38:10 just a couple of thoughts from me.
1:38:12 First and foremost,
1:38:14 um,
1:38:15 Across the bank group,
1:38:17 we've really encouraged our agriculture team and the
1:38:21 social protection team and other teams as well
1:38:23 to talk about food
1:38:25 and nutrition security.
1:38:27 So
1:38:28 agriculture in particular is not talking food security alone,
1:38:31 but food and nutrition security,
1:38:33 and I mentioned that because.
1:38:35 From the context of evaluation,
1:38:38 we would really appreciate if
1:38:40 much of the evaluation that is ongoing
1:38:43 across the various platforms that you mentioned
1:38:46 can look at both nutrition outcomes as well as the
1:38:50 food security outcomes.
1:38:52 So that's a request,
1:38:53 and I don't know how feasible.
1:38:55 Um,
1:38:56 that may be,
1:38:56 but we are doing that for board updates.
1:38:59 Another one coming up in March.
1:39:01 We're doing that in our analytics.
1:39:03 We're doing that on,
1:39:04 on the,
1:39:04 in the crisis response window
1:39:07 from um
1:39:08 operations point of view.
1:39:10 And that was,
1:39:11 uh,
1:39:11 done for the IEG evaluation that was done,
1:39:14 uh,
1:39:15 recently across the board as well.
1:39:16 So that's,
1:39:17 that's a plea to all of you.
1:39:19 Um,
1:39:20 then,
1:39:20 a,
1:39:20 a couple of
1:39:22 very specific things.
1:39:23 Um,
1:39:23 Ariana,
1:39:24 you mentioned Cote d'Ivoire.
1:39:25 Cote d'Ivoire is one of the countries that has actually
1:39:28 done
1:39:28 extremely well,
1:39:29 unexpectedly so,
1:39:32 on the nutrition agenda,
1:39:33 and we would love to see,
1:39:35 as you're saying,
1:39:36 look at the entire,
1:39:38 uh,
1:39:38 range of things that are being done in Cote d'Ivoire that
1:39:41 might have contributed to that and what lessons that may offer
1:39:44 for other countries as well.
1:39:46 Similarly,
1:39:48 um,
1:39:48 um,
1:39:49 you mentioned evaluations in Rwanda.
1:39:52 Well,
1:39:53 we have an evaluation ongoing in Rwanda,
1:39:56 a long-term,
1:39:57 um,
1:39:58 prospective evaluation of a large scale
1:40:01 program that includes both,
1:40:03 um,
1:40:03 uh,
1:40:04 health program as well as a social protection program.
1:40:07 Um,
1:40:07 it would be good to
1:40:09 connect the dots on that too,
1:40:11 cause we have some unexpected findings.
1:40:13 Uh,
1:40:13 Jed Friedman from the DC Group has been,
1:40:16 uh,
1:40:16 our partner in crime on that.
1:40:18 It would be really wonderful to connect the dots on that too.
1:40:21 Um,
1:40:23 um,
1:40:23 and,
1:40:24 and
1:40:25 you mentioned at the beginning that you,
1:40:26 uh,
1:40:27 WFP is launching,
1:40:28 uh,
1:40:29 a nutrition,
1:40:30 um,
1:40:31 Window in this too,
1:40:32 I'm not sure I'm using the right term in terms of window,
1:40:34 but,
1:40:35 uh,
1:40:35 in,
1:40:36 in 2022,
1:40:37 but we didn't hear anything more,
1:40:38 which countries,
1:40:39 what's,
1:40:40 what's being done,
1:40:40 what's being planned.
1:40:42 We would really like to coordinate action on,
1:40:44 on that
1:40:45 as well.
1:40:46 And lastly,
1:40:47 to say,
1:40:48 uh,
1:40:48 we are considering um nutrition,
1:40:51 climate ASA in um the next financial year
1:40:55 and would really like to again join hands with
1:40:58 many of the people in the room here today.
1:41:00 Thank you.
1:41:01 Over.
1:41:02 Great,
1:41:03 thank you very much.
1:41:04 Yes,
1:41:04 we we will let others answer.
1:41:06 Yeah,
1:41:06 yeah.
1:41:07 Now I want to answer to Mira first because you can be rest assured
1:41:10 that we are always talking about global food and a global malnutrition crisis.
1:41:16 So that's all over the place,
1:41:17 you know,
1:41:17 and,
1:41:18 and,
1:41:18 uh,
1:41:19 you know,
1:41:19 if you forget that here and there,
1:41:20 then you please remind us,
1:41:22 but.
1:41:22 For the advocacy part,
1:41:24 it's very important that we're talking about
1:41:26 the qualitative and the quantitative element.
1:41:29 And in some countries,
1:41:30 you have a mix of both situations.
1:41:32 So,
1:41:33 I think we are definitely,
1:41:34 I mean,
1:41:34 you,
1:41:34 uh,
1:41:35 it's absolutely music in the ears
1:41:37 that you are,
1:41:37 um,
1:41:38 that you are asking us to do so because that's,
1:41:40 that's for,
1:41:41 for sure.
1:41:42 Then I have two questions,
1:41:44 and I think the,
1:41:45 the colleague from the,
1:41:46 from working with on the Sudan
1:41:49 program was just supporting my,
1:41:51 my question.
1:41:53 Um,
1:41:54 to the two of you,
1:41:56 how much evidence do we need in terms of countries,
1:41:59 2 countries,
1:42:00 4 countries,
1:42:01 6 countries
1:42:02 before we are going,
1:42:03 uh,
1:42:04 before we dare to draw
1:42:06 our conclusions and go back to the drawing board saying,
1:42:09 oh,
1:42:09 we have to
1:42:11 redesign our,
1:42:12 our programs,
1:42:13 no?
1:42:14 Uh,
1:42:15 number 12,
1:42:17 we are very clear that we are,
1:42:19 you know,
1:42:20 so far advanced that we can say,
1:42:22 oh,
1:42:22 let's rewrite policies or on,
1:42:24 you know,
1:42:24 or prompt that discussion,
1:42:26 uh,
1:42:26 Arianna.
1:42:27 That's for me,
1:42:28 for me,
1:42:28 a very relevant question because,
1:42:30 um,
1:42:31 what you presented
1:42:32 was,
1:42:33 you know,
1:42:33 we had a kind of a,
1:42:34 this is why it's so exciting,
1:42:36 you know,
1:42:36 we had,
1:42:37 of course,
1:42:37 we have an idea operating in the Sahel,
1:42:40 you know.
1:42:41 With all the kind of countries on the,
1:42:43 on our huge resilience program and of course,
1:42:46 the country teams are,
1:42:47 you know,
1:42:48 coming up with that requesting,
1:42:50 how do we manage lean season.
1:42:52 So,
1:42:53 but now we have the evidence that's great,
1:42:56 that's supporting,
1:42:56 that's supporting our,
1:42:59 or it's,
1:42:59 it's legitimate to go back to the,
1:43:01 to the design board and say,
1:43:03 you know,
1:43:03 we have to factor in.
1:43:04 The lean,
1:43:06 the lean season management and even better
1:43:09 emerging agenda on forecast based financing,
1:43:11 right?
1:43:12 So,
1:43:13 but the question is for how much
1:43:15 broad evidence do we need
1:43:17 that we are on solid ground to do that.
1:43:20 And that's my,
1:43:20 that's my,
1:43:21 that's my question,
1:43:22 you know,
1:43:23 are 4 countries enough?
1:43:25 Then you have all the kind of uh people saying,
1:43:27 oh,
1:43:28 that's not enough because my,
1:43:29 my country has a completely different context,
1:43:32 no.
1:43:33 Uh,
1:43:33 take Afghanistan and your findings for,
1:43:35 no,
1:43:35 or Yemen findings for women,
1:43:37 completely different context,
1:43:39 you know,
1:43:39 I,
1:43:40 I just want to get a little bit of guidance on,
1:43:42 you know,
1:43:43 when is a good time for us to go,
1:43:46 you know,
1:43:46 to go,
1:43:46 to go back to the kind of limelight with this kind of finance,
1:43:50 uh,
1:43:51 finding,
1:43:51 sorry,
1:43:51 finding,
1:43:51 sorry.
1:43:53 Well,
1:43:54 I'm gonna.
1:43:56 Our team answer,
1:43:57 but I just want to say that,
1:43:59 you know,
1:43:59 every time there is a result,
1:44:01 even though it's specific in one country,
1:44:03 then
1:44:04 at the minimum it should raise some
1:44:07 doubt
1:44:09 for our programs,
1:44:10 you know,
1:44:10 just inject the thought
1:44:12 of,
1:44:13 OK,
1:44:13 this timing is something that I should be paying attention
1:44:16 to.
1:44:17 So that's,
1:44:18 that's a general answer,
1:44:19 which means every result should at least elicit some
1:44:23 doubt about whether we're doing the right thing.
1:44:27 And we always have the option to go into that specific
1:44:31 context
1:44:32 and actually test
1:44:34 what we think
1:44:35 communally
1:44:36 would make an inordinate difference
1:44:39 to the bottom line.
1:44:40 And so for a long time because we did not have a lot of evidence,
1:44:44 that's the approach we took
1:44:46 which says,
1:44:47 OK,
1:44:47 we have these results,
1:44:48 it may work for you,
1:44:49 let's test it in your context.
1:44:52 Now
1:44:53 we do also have
1:44:55 cases in which the literature is very
1:44:57 deep and the results are very consistent across
1:45:01 multiple settings
1:45:02 that give us
1:45:04 a
1:45:04 pretty good sense of comfort that some things
1:45:08 are
1:45:08 very
1:45:09 regular in the way,
1:45:10 you know.
1:45:12 People's behaviors and reactions and take up and
1:45:16 you know how incentives work that there are
1:45:18 some things that are common to our humanity
1:45:21 and that can be
1:45:24 extracted as regular results.
1:45:27 Now that's a little
1:45:29 different from saying how many countries do we need to make,
1:45:33 you know,
1:45:34 and so I'm gonna
1:45:35 pass it on.
1:45:37 I
1:45:39 mean there are thoughts,
1:45:40 you know,
1:45:40 they're clear thoughts on that,
1:45:42 um,
1:45:43 but the answer is not an exact number.
1:45:46 Yeah,
1:45:47 exactly.
1:45:47 I think that's the bottom line.
1:45:48 We'll never know,
1:45:49 but
1:45:51 I think,
1:45:52 I think it's really useful to think about,
1:45:54 you know,
1:45:54 and really want to applaud,
1:45:56 you know,
1:45:56 the,
1:45:56 the effort
1:45:57 John has put into this at the Andrea
1:46:00 when they started these windows because
1:46:02 it's so rare even when we try to do this coordinated effort to have
1:46:06 so much coordination
1:46:07 that every data set is essentially the same
1:46:10 except for some small changes in,
1:46:12 you know,
1:46:12 local,
1:46:13 you know,
1:46:13 food,
1:46:14 local crops,
1:46:14 stuff like that,
1:46:15 but everything.
1:46:15 It's the same.
1:46:16 And so,
1:46:17 and you know,
1:46:17 we could speak about the measurement for a long time.
1:46:19 There were questions on how we measure empowerment,
1:46:21 how we measure nutrition.
1:46:23 I think we have very rich data sets today.
1:46:24 We may not have spoken to the richness of the data set in 8 minutes,
1:46:29 but we will
1:46:30 organize,
1:46:30 you know,
1:46:30 specific BBLs,
1:46:31 I think on each of these topics and,
1:46:33 and we'll read these papers that will have more richness to them.
1:46:36 But on how many countries?
1:46:37 I think what we'll be able to do thanks to this really well.
1:46:40 Coordinated efforts,
1:46:41 uh,
1:46:42 across,
1:46:42 you know,
1:46:43 researchers and programs and everyone
1:46:45 to say at least
1:46:46 to tell you how much of these effects are driven by
1:46:49 local conditions versus how much are driven by the program.
1:46:53 So at least we'll be able to start quantifying
1:46:55 with two countries it's a bit too little.
1:46:57 So I think what we were aiming for is 6,
1:46:59 and we did,
1:47:00 you know,
1:47:00 all our homework,
1:47:02 uh,
1:47:02 before
1:47:03 to
1:47:04 kind of do what we.
1:47:05 Call power calculations to kind of start saying,
1:47:07 OK,
1:47:07 with 6 countries
1:47:08 for this impact evasion,
1:47:09 we should have something reasonable
1:47:11 that at least we'll be able to tell you,
1:47:13 you know,
1:47:13 how much of,
1:47:14 yeah,
1:47:15 this treatment,
1:47:15 what we call the treatment effects are due to local,
1:47:18 you know,
1:47:19 change I mean local conditions versus the actual problem
1:47:21 and so at least we'll be able to
1:47:23 say something about how many,
1:47:24 you know,
1:47:25 just maybe it'll be qualitative,
1:47:26 right?
1:47:27 But it'll tell you,
1:47:28 OK,
1:47:28 because the variations are so.
1:47:29 Large that come from the local environment,
1:47:32 we should add many more before we can be really positive that this is,
1:47:35 you know,
1:47:36 uh,
1:47:36 generalizable or not and,
1:47:38 and then we really are going to try to kind of
1:47:40 use economic theory
1:47:42 to find the regularities
1:47:44 across context and so,
1:47:45 you know,
1:47:46 we'll have much more
1:47:47 in the coming year on that
1:47:49 piece,
1:47:49 but we're adding
1:47:50 more countries so maybe I just add what we.
1:47:54 What we already know from
1:47:56 hundreds of impact evaluations is that every time we do a handful,
1:47:59 we will have more questions.
1:48:01 So
1:48:02 the,
1:48:02 the,
1:48:02 that's the downside,
1:48:03 but the good side is we are learning that.
1:48:07 But I think what we're already seeing is that with the 1st 3 or 4,
1:48:10 we are having strong evidence,
1:48:11 actually stronger evidence sometimes than we thought we
1:48:13 would with only 3 or 4 countries,
1:48:15 and things that we can learn from 3 or 4,
1:48:18 we don't necessarily need to relearn.
1:48:19 So we can also build the future designs
1:48:22 to focus on areas where we are still exploring and To learn more,
1:48:26 but
1:48:26 these windows
1:48:27 will continue to be evolving as long as WFP
1:48:30 needs evidence to support cash transfers.
1:48:32 We will focus on cash transfers and gender.
1:48:34 I mean,
1:48:35 they will follow the organization
1:48:37 as we go.
1:48:38 Yeah,
1:48:38 yeah,
1:48:38 but you know what I want to achieve
1:48:40 because I was describing our transformation journey.
1:48:44 We have to move
1:48:45 away from,
1:48:46 let me say,
1:48:47 you know,
1:48:47 anecdotal evidence,
1:48:49 sorry that I'm saying that,
1:48:50 no,
1:48:50 to a systematic approach that this is a must,
1:48:53 and what you're saying,
1:48:54 Ariana,
1:48:54 is
1:48:55 that is a must that at least you have doubts,
1:48:58 you know,
1:48:58 so we have to to introduce that to all the countries.
1:49:02 Teams
1:49:03 saying,
1:49:03 you know,
1:49:03 if you're,
1:49:04 if you're dealing with the programming like Sudan,
1:49:07 no,
1:49:07 if you,
1:49:08 if you deal with a huge cash-based
1:49:11 program in Pakistan,
1:49:12 the minimum what can expect from you,
1:49:14 you have to do A,
1:49:15 B,
1:49:15 C,
1:49:15 and D,
1:49:16 and then you see,
1:49:17 you know,
1:49:17 how,
1:49:17 where,
1:49:18 where,
1:49:18 where,
1:49:18 where,
1:49:19 where you land.
1:49:20 But we,
1:49:20 we,
1:49:21 the two of us,
1:49:22 we want to dream and more,
1:49:23 no,
1:49:24 we want to really want to dream more.
1:49:26 So beyond the,
1:49:27 the,
1:49:27 I've been crazy,
1:49:28 yes,
1:49:29 exactly,
1:49:30 and this try and adopt model,
1:49:31 right,
1:49:32 and where,
1:49:32 where to land,
1:49:33 and this is why,
1:49:34 why it's so
1:49:36 important that we are immediately
1:49:38 transferring that into this really.
1:49:41 Design phase and I'm not talking policy.
1:49:44 I mean,
1:49:44 that's the strategic patience,
1:49:45 um,
1:49:46 element,
1:49:47 you know,
1:49:47 but,
1:49:48 uh,
1:49:48 and it would be maybe too fast in,
1:49:50 in,
1:49:51 in,
1:49:51 in,
1:49:51 in some instances,
1:49:52 but you know,
1:49:53 for the cash one,
1:49:54 it's so important for us that we are
1:49:56 moving in immediately into the kind of corporate redesign phase,
1:50:01 right.
1:50:01 And that's um and I hope then you know if
1:50:04 if we have evidence for 4 countries or 6 countries
1:50:08 then then we are on the safe side no and then we can be challenged,
1:50:12 no,
1:50:12 we have a robust case that
1:50:13 that is what you need if you want to
1:50:16 to,
1:50:16 you know,
1:50:17 uh,
1:50:18 really prompt that kind of um different redesign
1:50:22 change pathway,
1:50:23 right?
1:50:24 Yeah,
1:50:24 I hope that's.
1:50:25 No,
1:50:25 no,
1:50:25 for sure,
1:50:26 and that's why I think even,
1:50:27 even,
1:50:27 even now we can start to look into that because
1:50:29 we have evidence that we're quite confident even now.
1:50:32 So I think it's talking to you and others about how to do that,
1:50:35 yeah,
1:50:35 yeah,
1:50:36 I guess we think of it as a change in the technology of design and implementation
1:50:41 where these,
1:50:43 uh,
1:50:44 data capabilities
1:50:46 and trials and adopt capabilities.
1:50:49 Are
1:50:49 part and parcel of our programs
1:50:52 everywhere
1:50:53 and so that that we can use these
1:50:55 to continue optimizing
1:50:57 the effectiveness of what we do.
1:51:00 The questions
1:51:01 are infinite,
1:51:02 you know,
1:51:03 potentially
1:51:03 and so as,
1:51:04 as,
1:51:05 uh,
1:51:05 as,
1:51:06 uh,
1:51:06 Jonas said,
1:51:07 you know,
1:51:07 every time we find something,
1:51:10 so many other questions come up.
1:51:12 OK,
1:51:12 but what about this and that and the other?
1:51:14 And so
1:51:15 kind of having
1:51:16 Investing in,
1:51:18 well,
1:51:18 investing in the data systems first and then using
1:51:22 that as a stepping stone to increase the frequency of
1:51:26 the different trials
1:51:27 to give a lot of different answers to our programs.
1:51:30 So what we,
1:51:31 what we show in our experience for the last 15 years,
1:51:34 this is a tiny.
1:51:36 Tiny investments
1:51:37 for very,
1:51:38 very large returns at the programmatic side
1:51:41 and so it's really a different technology of doing things.
1:51:45 Not,
1:51:45 I,
1:51:46 I don't even think of it as an impact evaluation.
1:51:48 I think of it
1:51:49 as a way of doing development which is
1:51:52 different now
1:51:54 than ever before.
1:51:55 I mean,
1:51:56 the way I think about it is that every study is part of a larger conversation
1:52:00 and so the more.
1:52:02 Studies that you have,
1:52:03 the richer set of information that you have to make judgment calls,
1:52:08 uh,
1:52:08 but,
1:52:09 but also I think that it's important to highlight that
1:52:12 as we engage in,
1:52:13 you know,
1:52:13 with the literature,
1:52:14 you know,
1:52:15 there is a bias because,
1:52:16 you know,
1:52:17 pub
1:52:17 articles that get published are the ones that get significant results
1:52:21 and oftentimes,
1:52:22 you know,
1:52:22 the,
1:52:22 the those studies that do not have significant results fall
1:52:25 by the way and and we don't know about them.
1:52:26 So again,
1:52:27 I think there's,
1:52:28 there's also the importance to commit to being to,
1:52:30 to making.
1:52:32 Public to,
1:52:33 to,
1:52:33 to bring the awareness to to what worked but didn't
1:52:36 work what got results but didn't get results so that again
1:52:39 that conversation can can be richer.
1:52:42 Yeah,
1:52:42 very good.
1:52:42 In fact,
1:52:43 we,
1:52:43 we share
1:52:45 everything
1:52:46 right
1:52:47 and,
1:52:47 and learning from failure of course is the is
1:52:50 the first instance just kind of stop doing what seems
1:52:54 like a good idea in theory,
1:52:56 but then
1:52:57 it doesn't roll out and doesn't deliver on its promises.
1:53:01 And that's a little slightly difficult sometimes
1:53:04 because
1:53:05 some,
1:53:06 you know,
1:53:07 some programs have been going on for a very long time and people are very attached
1:53:11 to
1:53:12 some
1:53:13 ways of doing things
1:53:14 and kind of helping them,
1:53:16 you know,
1:53:16 just,
1:53:17 I'm,
1:53:17 I'm also assuming the responsibility,
1:53:19 but because we depend often in terms on the generosity of donors
1:53:22 and we want to show to the donors that their money was well spent,
1:53:26 it's hard to sell,
1:53:27 oh look.
1:53:30 $5 billion
1:53:31 in fact had negative results,
1:53:33 yeah,
1:53:34 so,
1:53:34 so,
1:53:34 but again I think that that uh on,
1:53:36 on all,
1:53:37 all parties involved need to again so,
1:53:39 uh,
1:53:40 assume the responsibility and the importance of being able
1:53:43 to share everything and again that that us.
1:53:46 As development workers,
1:53:48 um,
1:53:48 we can't expect 100% of success,
1:53:51 that,
1:53:51 you know,
1:53:51 there will be failures.
1:53:52 There were things that will go wrong.
1:53:53 There will be things that
1:53:55 turn out differently from,
1:53:56 from what we expect them to be,
1:53:58 and then sort of also to have the commitment that we can
1:54:01 actually learn from this,
1:54:02 those experiences and then sort of,
1:54:04 you know,
1:54:04 uh,
1:54:04 um,
1:54:04 make sure that we don't repeat those same mistakes again.
1:54:09 But I have to say in terms of our donor relations,
1:54:12 once you are very transparent.
1:54:16 Um,
1:54:16 and you are
1:54:18 already,
1:54:18 and you have,
1:54:19 and you establish that kind of relationship,
1:54:21 you know,
1:54:23 and moving all the donors from a payer to a player and a
1:54:26 strategic partner and create that environment that there is that kind of,
1:54:30 you know,
1:54:31 the preparedness to learn together.
1:54:33 Uh,
1:54:34 you know,
1:54:34 I,
1:54:34 I'm not naive.
1:54:35 No,
1:54:35 I mean,
1:54:36 we are not,
1:54:36 we can't open that up for,
1:54:38 you know,
1:54:38 for every situation,
1:54:39 but I think for the most important,
1:54:41 and I'm coming back with to,
1:54:42 to my question in terms of
1:54:44 strategic investment.
1:54:46 Once as an organization,
1:54:47 you invest so much in CBT or in school-based programs.
1:54:52 You have to be rested,
1:54:53 you have to,
1:54:54 on your,
1:54:55 on your own,
1:54:55 you have to make sure
1:54:57 that you're constantly questioning your routine
1:55:00 because the,
1:55:01 the,
1:55:01 the framing conditions are changing.
1:55:03 Look at Sudan,
1:55:04 no,
1:55:05 at the
1:55:06 Afghanistan,
1:55:07 the,
1:55:07 the frame conditions are constantly changing
1:55:11 and to adapt,
1:55:12 you know,
1:55:12 to these kind of frame,
1:55:13 frame conditions is,
1:55:15 is,
1:55:15 is key.
1:55:16 Uh,
1:55:18 and also creating that kind of,
1:55:19 let me say,
1:55:19 lab situation with donors,
1:55:21 you know,
1:55:22 in the context of our annual strategic consultations,
1:55:24 we try really to,
1:55:26 in a way,
1:55:26 create a situation where we're saying,
1:55:28 you know,
1:55:28 what,
1:55:29 what have we learned
1:55:30 and not
1:55:31 saying,
1:55:31 you know,
1:55:32 you're here.
1:55:32 Have invested on the wrong topic or you know,
1:55:34 but,
1:55:35 but also,
1:55:36 you know,
1:55:37 uh,
1:55:37 we want to be pushed also,
1:55:40 you know,
1:55:40 in that direction,
1:55:41 that innovation learning
1:55:43 are enablers and innovation is also something about
1:55:46 that you are failing here and there,
1:55:47 you know,
1:55:48 that,
1:55:48 that was the wrong way to go and
1:55:51 And so this is one,
1:55:52 and I hope,
1:55:53 you know,
1:55:54 you have no idea what kind of favor you did
1:55:58 with your presentation on,
1:55:59 on this kind of
1:56:00 emerging agenda on forecast-based financing because we want to prove.
1:56:06 That
1:56:07 in the moment we are talking about climate adaptation programs,
1:56:10 we want to prove that climate adaptation is an integral part of what we are doing,
1:56:15 right?
1:56:15 If we get that evidence,
1:56:17 right,
1:56:18 then it's a kind of,
1:56:19 you know,
1:56:20 dealing,
1:56:21 you know,
1:56:21 and,
1:56:21 and showcasing that the same intervention.
1:56:25 And I think Louis,
1:56:25 you said that or someone else said it.
1:56:27 Uh,
1:56:28 I think Luli said it,
1:56:29 you know,
1:56:29 this one intervention has so many direct and indirect side effects,
1:56:33 no,
1:56:34 and we have to be very conscious about
1:56:36 the indirect positive side effects on climate,
1:56:39 climate adaptation.
1:56:40 We are not yet there.
1:56:41 It's very clear.
1:56:43 We do a lot of hundreds of good things,
1:56:45 in particular on this,
1:56:46 uh,
1:56:46 public works,
1:56:47 work side,
1:56:48 Luli.
1:56:48 Um,
1:56:49 you know,
1:56:49 infrastructure and all of that,
1:56:51 but this,
1:56:51 the indirect side effects on,
1:56:53 on,
1:56:53 on the climate adaptation
1:56:55 effects are immense if you're doing it in the right way,
1:56:58 you know.
1:56:59 Uh,
1:56:59 look at Turkey and Syria,
1:57:00 you know,
1:57:00 at the moment,
1:57:01 the earthquake,
1:57:02 you know,
1:57:02 yeah,
1:57:02 in the moment,
1:57:03 you know,
1:57:04 you,
1:57:04 you have to start rebuilding.
1:57:07 Um,
1:57:08 we have to factor that in,
1:57:10 and in the moment we know what,
1:57:11 what we are doing and how we are questioning our routine.
1:57:15 Then it's,
1:57:16 it's the best,
1:57:17 and I would say,
1:57:18 I would,
1:57:18 uh,
1:57:19 conclude,
1:57:19 Louise,
1:57:20 that donors like these conversations more and more.
1:57:24 It's not giving us the money and saying you have to,
1:57:27 uh,
1:57:28 uh,
1:57:28 you have to breathe and,
1:57:29 uh,
1:57:30 you prove that's a 100% success,
1:57:32 but you have to prove that you're thinking
1:57:35 about your routine and how to improve and how to learn and how to,
1:57:38 you know,
1:57:38 how to do things differently,
1:57:39 you know.
1:57:40 So having said that,
1:57:42 thank you,
1:57:43 that's,
1:57:43 uh,
1:57:43 I think that's a beautiful conclusion
1:57:47 being kept accountable for introducing learning and acting on learning
1:57:52 as opposed to being accountable for the status quo.
1:57:55 I think that
1:57:56 I,
1:57:56 I,
1:57:57 I do agree with you that the conversations are much more productive
1:58:01 if you pushed in that direction.
1:58:02 I wrote down
1:58:04 from player to player.
1:58:05 Um,
1:58:06 I think it's important.
1:58:07 Everybody,
1:58:08 I think,
1:58:08 wants to be part of that positive conversation about how we needs to get better.
1:58:13 Yeah,
1:58:13 yeah,
1:58:15 so at least we have an internet side effect on this,
1:58:19 yeah.
1:58:21 I think we are at the end of our session,
1:58:23 but I think this was a great,
1:58:25 wonderful discussion
1:58:26 connecting the points.
1:58:27 I want to congratulate
1:58:28 the WFP and,
1:58:29 and if the alumni also our social protection
1:58:33 and,
1:58:34 and jobs partners in,
1:58:35 in this.
1:58:36 Uh,
1:58:36 enterprise
1:58:38 because both of them have been super,
1:58:41 you've been super open to exactly what we're discussing now,
1:58:45 which is
1:58:45 not being defensive about what we do
1:58:48 because development and emergency is difficult.
1:58:52 But actually being
1:58:53 open and putting things out and figuring out
1:58:56 where,
1:58:56 where is the path forward
1:58:58 and so we're here to support
1:59:00 and work
1:59:01 with you in the future as,
1:59:03 as we know we have a partnership until 2026,
1:59:05 but we think of it as
1:59:07 just a partnership and we'll continue working with you now and in the future
1:59:11 and uh and with our,
1:59:13 uh,
1:59:13 World Bank colleagues as well.
1:59:15 Very,
1:59:15 very good discussion.
1:59:16 Thank you very much for being here.
1:59:18 Thank you.
1:59:24 Thank you to everyone online.
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